Job Discussion Forums

[Javelin of Radiance]

[Bud Powell]

1. I challenged your labeling of my documented F visa to F.R.P. transition as 'anecdotal' and I now reaffirm that my report was factual and supported by documentary evidence

Never underestimate the value of an education. Go look up "empirical". My suggestion isn't a red herring at all. Anecdotal data and empirical data are two different forms of information.

[Zhejiang_Man]

All around the Mulberry Bush,
Buddy chased the Z man .
Buddy stopped to look up new words
and redirect his attack plan.

[deleted]

I thought I was about to learn something when informed that 'anecdotal evidence' could refer to small sample size possibly cherry-picked data. Having read the wiki page, I don't believe that is true.

An F-visa and whatever other documentation Zhejiang has is evidence - the only question is whether it was forged or stolen, or a result of bribery. Basically, it is not anecdotal evidence (evidence derived from an anecdote), it is evidence in support of the anecdote.


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There's a blurry line when it comes to matters like medical science - where someone takes a pill and then finds their terminal illness is cured. The reason this is considered anecdotal is because there is no reliable/scientific way to prove that the pill was the cause of the cure, since that is basically a numbers game.

YET you could take that person to an ultra-sound before and after, and show the existence and absence of cancer. This would be evidence, not merely anecdotal, but it would still not be evidence that the pill cured the cancer.

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It doesn't matter whether Zhejiang's situation is general or not, as long as he doesn't claim "i have done it, therefore everyone can!".

In my view.

[Javelin of Radiance]

It's amazing how far some people will go to push a meaningless point on an internet forum. The man got an F visa and managed to turn that into a residence permit. It's possible but can't be done everywhere. We don't need to know anything else.

[choudoufu]

it really don't make no never mind that the z-man has photogenic
documentation of his F->RP conversion. it's not the 'proof' that makes
it an anecdote. for the purposes (think context) of this thread, titled
"Working on an F Visa," the issue is whether teaching on a z-visa is
possible or legal or advisable. the evidence provided is one z-man's
personal experience. it is not a careful study; it does not show a trend.
it is one isolated, abnormal incident. it does not apply to the
overwhelming majority of foreign teachers, and should not be used
to base a decision of whether to work on an f-visa. in relation to the
thread topic, z-mans story should be considered anecdotal evidence.

[Javelin of Radiance]

The original poster asked some questions about working on an F visa, one person currently doing that replied with something relevant and maybe useful. As for the sideshow debate on anecdotes vs. empirical evidence - no-one, except a couple of people on this thread and those internet forum addicts who must post at any cost, cares. This forum is almost 100% based on what happened to some anonymous person in some random place at some meaningless point in time (ie: personal anecdotes).

[deleted]

Yea, I agree. I was basically stuck in a small-picture version of this thread.

I think F visas are "good" for people who can't get a Z-visa, and for people who are ignorant of the Chinese visa situation (who think all visas are equal, because they did no research). But the OP is not ignorant.

But despite the many many disadvantages of F-visas, there are at least two advantages I have recently discovered. Firstly, your school is unlikely (or even unable) to block you from further local employment at the Foreign Expert Bureau - My local FEB, Labor Arbitrators and Embassy confirmed this as a possibility. Secondly, the school can't prevent (or delay) you from working at another school (by withholding your release letter).

These two points may be a rarity, but they are problems I found myself up against, whereas my F-visa colleagues will remain blissfully free from any such problems and could skip home as though they had never been here.