Job Discussion Forums

[MixtecaMike]

[moonraven]

I am not offended because of my "alternative viewpoint", but because you have made offensive and denigrating statements about me. Don't tell me what I can and can't do. I have absolutely no desire to be part of the mainstream; mediocrity is not, nor has ever been, one of my aspirations.

[some waygug-in]

Yikes. I had no idea that comercial was owned by anyone other than Mexicans. Sorry for my ignorance, I am as much opposed to globalization as you are. I just wanted to make the point that many Mexicans are benifiting from these jobs. So the standards are not the same as in the US or Canada. They still are better than the competition.

I was under the impression that all companies operating in Mexico had to be at least 51% controlled by Mexicans. Is that not so?

Please correct my misunderstandings.

[thelmadatter]

yeah and I believe Carrefour and Gigante and Suburbia are also foreign. At least the WalMart credit card (which I do not have) works at Gigante and Surburbia

Personally, I dont really have much against globalization ... esp. since I think it is inevitable because of technology. And it really isnt a new phenomena, the technology of cross-ocean seafaring made the colonization of the "New World" possible and makes many of us what we are today. Bad? Good? Both...

What I hope is that the problems of globalization are temporary and that in some point in the future, globalization will be a benefit for everyone. Naive? Maybe, but no more naive than seeing everything non-U.S. with rose-colored glasses because you believe the US to be the great evil in the world, no matter what it does (or doesnt do). Want to rid the world of this evil? Get rid of the technology that makes it possible - start by quitting the Internet. And stop teaching EFL, no matter what spin you put on it, teaching EFL contributes to globalization.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[Gringo Greg]

First off, Moonraven, if are unhappy with the discourse on this forum, maybe you should choose a different forum. You are the unliked one on this forum, I say this in an earnest way, you have good information to give, but your delivery needs improvement.

Way Gug- Corporations can be totally foreign owned in Mexico now thanks to NAFTA. A lot of other good provisions in it as well. One exception really remains and that is foreign ownership of land within 30km of the border or the ocean, but I believe Mexican corporations can own the land and Mexicans corporations can have 100% foreign ownership.

And Mexicans can own US companies...and they do.

Done the right way, globalization can be a great thing. And Thelma is right, EFL is a tool of globalization, equiping students with the tools to communicate in a global society.

[moonraven]

Aurrer�, Bodega Aurrer�, Sam�s Club, Suburbia, Superama, Vips y Wal-Mart Supercenter are the other tentacles of Wal Mart in Mexico. Gigante belongs to Carrefour--the French multinational. Comercial Mexicana is part of Costco. Chedraui is the only one of the supermarket chains that I am familiar with that is still owned by the Mexican family that started it. There is one about 40 minutes from where I live.

The only bank in Mexico majoritively Mexican owned is Banorte.

If the current government has its way, Pemex will soon be owned by a consortium of US companies; ditto the electric company.

[lozwich]

I agree with Thelmadatter on this. I think globalisation can be a good thing. Yes, I find it alarming how much Coke I can find here in my town, but I find it alarming how many refrescos are consumed in general, including the locally owned and produced brands.

I am leaving in 3 weeks to go to another country, and taking the money I managed to save here with me. Does that make me evil, and negate all the work I did here?

I think with education, understanding and a better distribution of power around the world, globalisation could be a fantastic thing. Which is why I got into education in the first place...

Have a good day,
Lozwich.

[moonraven]

Theoretically, I agree with you--globalization COULD be a good thing. If what was being globalized was positive. What's being globalized: savage capitalism, with its byproducts of violence, greed and poverty--not good things in my book, and I doubt in yours. CocaCola is a good example--not primarily because their soft drink is loaded with sugar--no one forces you to drink soft drinks, but because their current goal is to grab the available water so they can bottle it. (If you will notice, a brand called Ciel has been taking over the bottled water market in Mexico during the past 2 years--it's a CocaCola product.) In the Third World folks are forced to drink bottled water because the water that is supposedly potable isn't. Privatizing water is what put the banana peel under the heel of "The Gringo" Lozada, who was booted out of the presidential chair in Bolivia last October by a coalition of indigenous people who were "mad as hell and not going to take it anymore."

The money you are taking out of the country isn't even a centavo compared to what the multinational companies take out of the Third World every day--when those folks come into countries they always cut agreements to "repatriate profits".

I think EFL/ESL teachers should read Eduardo Galeano's books--especially Las venas abiertas de Am�rica Latina. It was first published in 1971, and has never been out of print since then. A number of his books have been translated into English, and he received the (US') National Book Award back in the 90s. He is a wonderful writer, and he has made an art of laying the truth on the line. The truth may--or may not--set you free.

[lozwich]

The water I drink comes from a plant that I go past every morning on the way to work. Locally owned and operated, but quite probably from technology that was developed internationally.

I have been a participant in a global group that is working to protect the world's coral reefs. Its members are from all continents, and sharing information and educating both 'first world' and developing nations about how to do this.

Dr Fred Hollows was a fantastic Australian eye surgeon who developed a simple procedure to correct eye problems caused by insanitary conditions in Aboriginal settlements in outback Australia. This procedure was then taken by Dr Hollows and his wife to many parts of Asia where doctors where taught how to do the procedure, and have since saved the eyesight of countless people.

The last two of these examples may have been funded by questionable sources, but at least they are taking place, for the enrichment of humankind and our planet.

Nothing is simply black or white.

Lozwich.

[moonraven]

The water you are drinking NOW comes from that plant--in 2 or 3 years, the way things are going, a bottle of that same water could very well have "un producto de la CocaCola Company" written on the side of it. Of course nothing is 100% black or white--or not everything, anyway. Life is lived in shades of gray, but in terms of the destructive elements of globalization, it's hard to label something-- or someone-- "a little bit dead"--that's sort of like being "a little bit pregnant".

[estanton]

I had said a lot more than the above title, but I just joined this forum and don't want to ruin my reputation with anyone by intervening in a discussion whose history I may not know.

It does seem to me that insults on either side of the issue are misplaced, and I'm suprised that people don't EXPECT controversy when they raise a subject as controversial as the expansion of Wal-Mart in Mexico.

estanton

[some waygug-in]

Thank you for informing me about the long arms of Costco/Walmart.
I find it a bit ironic that Canadians now complain about globalization, but when Canada was asked whether or not they would support NAFTA, the majority voted for "Lyin' Brian" in support of it. Now they complain about the results.

Nobody would listen to the little old NDP telling what disasterous effects this would bring.

Not only the massive loss of jobs to cheaper Mexican labour, but the large scale environmental impact that these companies have.

Canada is now reaping what they have sown.

It is impossible to stop globalization, at this point. But there are things we can do to try and make globalization a more fair process.

When I was in Mexico, I tried to shop at the small mom and pop stores whenever I could, but there were times when that just wasn't possible.

Thanks again for the book recommendations. I will try to get a copy and do some reading.

peace.

[ls650]

This seems to be one of those polarized issues where folks at one extreme or the other refuse to meet in the middle.

I shop at a local store when I can, and the big chain at other times. I don't see this as a B&W issue; it has several shades of gray.

[Gringo Greg]