Job Discussion Forums

[Sashadroogie]

According to whose orthography? Eh? Eh?

[ositolector]

--I'm the OP and would like to give thanks for the insights thus far- don't stop . ps-I hadn't responded till now because I didn't get notice that I'd gotten any replies -- I must've ticked OFF the Notify box by mistake.
-- In reply to the snarkers, I'd respond: not everyone is coming from the same situation income/expectation wise. If you've been on some good contracts in the Gulf netting (meaning after housing) 3-5k/month for a few years, it's difficult to adjust down to 1k + a shared apt in Moscow - one of the top 5 most expensive cities in the world. That's why there are so many threads on here which can basically be summed up as ' is it worth it'.
--Correlating mean national incomes with ESL teacher salaries would yield an expectation of russian pay being on par with Koreas and perhaps rural Japans, controlling for desirability of nation and other factors.
Given some of the encouraging rates for privates you posted, and that the private pay versus employment pay per hour ratio is generally 3 to 4, my take is that city Russian schools are underpaying by HALF for their size economy. This is all of course speculative and very ceteris paribus.
-- Teaching adv users is easier then teaching raw beginners and more interesting. Teaching 20-50 yo adults is less stressful than teaching kids. Both of these are specially true of any non-primary-education major, let alone a Phd - in any field IMO. I liked the poster who said that he/she charged a premium for teaching children and neophytes. I don't think this implies laziness or anything other than logic.
-- On poaching: I think I'd agree that it is a natural font of privates but shouldn't be the EXCLUSIVE sourcefor many reasons - some obvious... and that's why I initiated the topic.
-- I don't think anyone addressed the topic head-on.
Now, I didn't expect a 1,2,3 guide but perhaps more than 'get out and about, you'll find them'.
While reading through various threads on here,I have found that some off-topic comments/stories are very helpful and generally optimistic about your chances of getting good privates /pay. This encourages me.
-- For now, I'm speaking with a few schools to settle on a contract rate and a min of hours + an invite. I'll cover my own costs. This is a hybrid solution which will hopefully avoid me making commitments I can't honor but which will generate some cash/socila flow while my own marketing efforts pan out.

[teacher X]

expat.ru is a place you can put up an ad for privates. But I would suggest making a new email account just for this, unless you wish to be flooded in spam (as I now find myself).

[ComradeBL]

ositolector - Howdy!

I made a "proper" comment and hadn't really paid that much to what the posting said. However, I guess I did check the notify box and got hit with new postings. This time I read over the original posting and your more recent feedback. Figured I'd chime in with my 2 cents...

First off, you mentioned residing in Arabian/Persian Gulf and the lifestyle the economics of that region allow you to have. It sounds to me like you've got what we referred to when I was in that part of the world as "Dollar Disease." Just about anyone entering the world of ESL/EFL/whatever you want to call it knows that it's not an area to get rich. Quite the contrary, most live in squalor, which is why it tends to attract early 20 somethings who just finished their undergrad degrees and want to travel/get a bit of work experience under their belts before getting a "real job" back home. 95% of all EFL $$ opportunities involve working in the military, aviation (& that usually is somehow connected to the military), or the petro industries and most of these gigs are located in hot spots. The other 5% of bank opportunities involve going into business for yourself. I knew MANY fellas who hated every waking second of their existence in the region, but couldn't pop enough pills to break "Dollar Disease." Ultimately, you'll have to decide if you're going to take the blue or the red one...

I don't care if you're selling used cars, accounting services, or English lessons, the risks for going into business for yourself are both great. There's a high likelihood you will fail (2/3rds of all small businesses in the USA fail within 3 years & the US is one of the best nations for generating small businesses in the world), but should you be successful, the payouts can be wonderful financially & for self-worth. Ultimately, you have to think of yourself, NOT as a teacher, but as a self-employed businessman who offers teaching services. That's how your CV should read...

I think this is true for most of the world, but certainly seems to be the case for Russia. You or some business partner HAS to be on the ground in-country to make it work. It's not a "line it up at home and execute upon arrival" type of place.

I've had this discussion with fellow expat educators a gazillion times. If you are seeking a steady, regular check, you should NOT be working abroad, PERIOD! All of this is a mirage. Later today, Iran gets bombed which causes a tit-for-tat across the Gulf region and EVERYONE is shipped out of country. Everything you had is now POOF! Snowden runs out of SVO and the US invades Russian airspace which leads to war with Russia...POOF! DPRK goes off the handle and invades ROK...POOF! Rioting in the Coasta del Sol forces all expats out of Spain and starts the disentergration of the EU...POOF! The point is, there are NO GUARANTEES, especially when you are away from home and have no ironclad connection to the nation in which you are residing (marriage, citizenship, chid of citizenship, etc.)

The advice most have posted is accurate. There really is only two ways to approach Russia. Option 1 is on the ground running with a chain school who does a lot of the work for you but you don't make coin. Option 2 is you do all the leg work on the ground and build your own business. There may be greater payout with Option 2, but there is more risk associated with the opportunity for greater payout. That's life, eh?

Fortunately for me, my background is in education, and I hold the credentials/degrees to work in a government/private school environment over a language school. That's a totally different ball of wax with different compensation schemes.

In summary:
***Ditch Dollar Disease if you want to come to Russia
***You are a businessman selling English lessons, not a teacher
***You are not in your home country and it can all be gone in a flash
***Take on less risk & less reward with a chain school or more risk & potentially more reward with a go alone strategy
***Get qauls to work in primary/secondary/post-secondary government/private institutional environments to transition your EFL/ESL/whatever work into higher pay

I really do wish and hope for the best however you approach the hand life has dealt you.

Good luck!

[expatella_girl]

ositolector--

I've seen posts all over Dave's ESL cafe from EFL teachers looking to get out of the middle east and meeting with low hiring enthusiasm from almost everywhere else in the world.

They like to comment about how great their wages were in Dubai or Qatar, or the UAE, or wherever--and how straightforward visas were and how commendable free included housing was--and then go on to berate latin America or central asia or where ever for not meeting the terms they enjoyed in the middle east. Which is full of oil. And money.

I think some of these teaches got a bit spoiled in oil countries?

They expect that now they have earned their stripes and wish to exit the close corseted ME, they should have some earned privileges which will pave their way into other jobs in more interesting places where they can spread their wings.

Well, it appears that just ain't so. Doing hard time in the ME doesn't buy schite in Russia. The Russians could care less. They will still offer you a crap contract with a shared soviet apartment and wages which will only cover black bread with sausage and a potato, and a beer on Saturdays.

So you need to either:

Stay on the gravy train in the ME

OR

Accept that your value is is not the high end English teacher elitny you thought you were,

And then--

Decide where you would like to spend your years and your life, and decide what your dollar/lifestyle tradeoffs are.

[Foma87]

I think the above poster exaggerates the risk of freelancing (which he seems to confuse with starting a business by way setting up a legal entity??) as well as the chances of a mass exodus of foreign expats due to some kind of political fallout (??). By "dollar disease" does he mean the desire to make a decent wage in ESL or become rich?? What exactly does he mean by a businessman selling English lessons?? This is all very confusing.

If you're more or less established in Moscow, freelance english teaching provides decent compensation ($4000-$6000 monthly) with little risk, as there is a very high demand here. This seems to be within the range of what the OP was looking for when thinking about moving. I think his plan of part-timing it at a language school for visa and possibly accommodation and gradually transitioning into a situation where he can freelance full-time is definitely doable, though it might take a couple years.

Good luck!

[ComradeBL]

@ Foma87 - Ah, yes, my points of working abroad were ment as complete exaggeration...but don't think the USSR was exaggerating on 25 Dec 1991...

As for business creation in the USA, it's incredibly simple. Here's exactly how: I am self-employed...TA-DAH! Now I have a business. Legal-schmegal...

Rich, to me = outlays are less than income = savings; I find that hard on apporx. 95% of the salaries I see posted under the job section of Dave's ESL Cafe

[Foma87]

Call me a pedant, but while I am self-employed, I do not consider myself a small business owner. Does the stat you gave about small businesses in the US pertain to the former, latter, or both? I suppose if you're self-employed and you aren't picking up many clients you could say your business is failing, but that would sound kind of strange, if not misleading, wouldn't it? There is BTW a legal distinction between being self-employed (individual entrepreneur) and starting your own business (legal entity). But, yes, as you said, legal-schmegal.

I agree, 95% of the salaries offered on ESL boards won't make you rich, by your definition of the term, which I would liken more to making a decent wage. I just don't see how any of this is relevant to the questions brought up by the original poster. I digress.

[teacher X]

Foma87- You're making 200,000rub per month? Jesus Christ Monkey Balls!

How much are you charging per class? I am trying to pick up privates at the moment and they're all dragging their heels when I ask for 2500rub for a 90 minute class. They all seem to think it's too high.

One guy wanted me to teach his kid. I'd have to get to Mitino (which is about an hour's metro ride for me) and then he'd send the driver to pick me up from the station. Yet he wanted to pay 900rub for one real hour. If you have a driver, I'm pretty sure that you can afford to pay my fees, especially if I am being asked to travel over an hour to get to the student.

[Sashadroogie]

2500 for 90 mins is the minimum rate I know of, from friends and colleagues. 3500 is average. Any potential client who is unwilling to pay is re-directed to McSchool websites, where they will learn that the market value is far, far higher than the fees above.

900 for one to one with a kid beyond Mitino? A client like that is a time waster. I hope you told him where to go, diplomatically of course.

That said, few teachers are making 200,000 every month. It can be done for a few peak periods, but with cancellations and holiday seasons etc, average incomes even for the most successful of us tend to dip to 150,000 or 100,000

[Foma87]

Sasha is right, few make 200000 per month, and I for sure am not one of them. I study 30 hrs per week, which cuts down on my ability to teach full time, though I do editing/translating work on the side, and I don't think, given my experience, I command a premium rate anyway. I usually charge 2500-3000, depending on location, which is less than schools charge. But, sure, 200000 during peak periods is definitely possible for established, full-time teachers.

I wouldn't do a lesson for anything less than 2000 per 90min, though, which is a rate I sometimes give for younger students on a budget and usually involves them coming to my home.

[teacher X]

Thanks for the clarification guys.
As for telling that Mitino guy where to go; I didn't even waste my time emailing him back.

[ositolector]

I must say I enjoy reading of Gulf teachers being described as plump scrooge Mcbabies on highchairs banging their little fists like TEFL (sic) 'elitny' demanding thousands and burping up from 'dollar disease'! Just great stuff!

I second Foma in his idea that seeking to earn a decent livable wage is not the same as seeking, let alone demanding, untold riches (which I hasten to add is much more that 35-50k/annum) It does appear that becoming a reluctant entrepreneur may be the way in Russia

And while I enjoy Comrades apocalyptic scenarios, I don't think his conclusions are necessarily exclusive of each other and over time can quite overlap in application.
Ultimately, I believe, whether on a W2 or I-99 or cash comissh: You Are Always Working For Yourself.

So.... to transition from minion to master, what to do? Here's what I've got
- ad in expat.ru w/disposable email. Check.
- get out and about and English starved execs/moms will rush you with rubles. Check.
- put flyers up in the metro (seen by all) and don't put up flyers in the metro (criminals read them). Check.
- run ads in papers (?)your new Russian friends will tell you about. Check.
- print up business cards (consult with ? to translate) and throw them like confetti at sports events yelling archaic English idiom like 'How you like THEM apples' . Check.
- print up a shirt, and wear everywhere, that reads 'If you can read this shirt, thank an English teacher' in back. Front says in Russian: ' If you can't read this shirt back, hire me.' Check.
- Get in with the local Bratva (Mafiya) and have English lessons be part of their client's protection payment. Check.

Any and all suggestions welcome.

ps-- MelDawn and Roscoe, thanks for the PMs. I wrote you back as soon as I saw them.

[sisyphus]

And where pray is the best market-Moscow or St Petersburg? or much of a muchness? Pray tell....