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nellychess · Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 187 Location: USA

I wish there were more actual Uni classroom videos, but I have only found this one.

It seems like a good lesson to me, but I have no experience. Can someone with experience possibly critique the lesson, and even better, recommend other videos?

Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKYYpLtZtOs

DLIguy · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:36 am Post subject:

High-ly-am-a-teur-ish...a-lmost-com-i-cal! Is-that-the-way-they-speak-and-ges-ture-the-U-ni-ted King-dom...sup-po-sed-ly-a-ve-ry, ve-ry small-is-land?

If-so-they-must-be-a-chal-len-ged-lot! Rolling Eyes

fluffyhamster · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:57 am Post subject:

Is it a uni class? Most of them look like schoolkids LOL. Then again, they seem to have a little familiarity with English, so perhaps they indeed are freshmen! The teacher is talking a little too slowly and unnaturally for my taste, and at quite some length and with no clear point other than that the students will obediently listen, not interrupt, and answer an easy rhetorical question (the teacher knows the answers, so why ask, fun though it is for everyone to play dumb up to a point) every now and then. Essentially it is an undemanding "self-introduction"-style lesson, as practised by and expected from foreign English teachers in East Asia. Full answers are awaited if not demanded (that mirror back much of the question, such as when she asks What time do you start/finish school? and the students answer I start/finish school at 5:30am/10pm) when short answers (as short as just 5:30am/10pm) would be much more natural and efficient.* I'd hope that at least more genuine, purposeful exchanges would be introduced later, e.g. Hey B-laoshi (=Teacher B), what time do you finish classes/teaching today? (At) 6pm, why? There's a firework display in the park tonight at 8pm... . What I'm trying to show here are little things like 'discourse markers' (Hey...); useful words such as 'again' (see footnote); and functions/REAL REASONS beyond the mere transaction of surface information. Overall her lesson is quite a mish-mash of language (in terms of its grammar, vocab, and phrases), "selected" merely to follow the teacher's fancy and train of "thought(s)". All that being said, the students seem pretty engaged and I think the teacher has good personal qualities that she'll be able to build on and become more ambitious with. It certainly isn't hard to imagine or recall worse first lessons (for example, I once saw a colleague repeat questions like "What's your name?" ever more exasperatedly and menacingly to a bewildered complete beginner in a small business class in China, and this colleague apparently had a cert!?). If however one continued to teach in this rather teacher-centered and essentially monologic way for weeks or months on end, the charm could soon wear off and the students become bored or suffer aural fatigue. Variety, more selective focus, ebb and flow, concentration and relaxation depending on the immediate task (explicit or implicit) at hand will help, and again, I myself always look to more natural discourse patterns and data for my ideas and cues.

*Some argue that full-sentence answers provide more practice, but in what precisely? Unnatural, robotically repetitive English? If the long full statement 'I start or finish something at such and such a time' itself is so important, it surely deserves more thought as to what would be the most natural and supportive contexts (and here's just an off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion: Hey, I finish work at 6pm...what time is the party again? Sort of turning the previous suggested miniskit on its head). It's actually quite hard to think of or even find 'finish...at' example-statements, but the point about the value of short answers still stands; that is, the more faithful one is to real language, the more it should help things fall into place across the language lessons as a whole). Lastly, some further reading, if you feel up for it: http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?p=13718#13718 < (>) http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=2642 ; http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=97205

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:16 am Post subject:

This is an example of what not to do in a classroom - primarily, don't degrade your own language. And don't lecture. Don't be a clown either.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:32 am Post subject:

I've seen approved demo lessons that exhibit quite degraded language and are rhetorical enough to also be essentially lecture-like (notwithstanding periods where students do pairwork etc). Of course, the clip in question is towards the further end of the scale, but I think it's just a matter of degree - most methodology indulges the teacher a bit too much I'd say. Not sure about the clowning - I'd say use humour and tantalizing tidbits to generate interest and get students listening, but sure, again there are degrees and potential extremes (I don't think the clowning or injected humour was too extreme or unwelcome in this clip tho). It'd be interesting actually to hear how you'd cope in that sort of classroom, Sasha (or isn't it a real classroom worthy of the challenge?).

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:17 am Post subject:

You are right. Fluffy, in that this sort of classroom presents its own challenges beyond the norms of EFL. The class numbers are far higher than that which would make for effective communicative lessons. But even so, I would still say that speaking like a wind-up robot is not the way to go.

I'm not sure that I noticed the tantalizing tit-bits you did, though. Could you point them out for me, please? Also, what approved demo-lessons are you referring to? Are they on DVD? Can we see them and compare?

As for how I'd cope with this, I'd have all the learners read aloud in unison from their Dialectical Materialism books at the tops of their voices.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:55 am Post subject:

The tantalizing tidbits can be as mundane as saying you have a dog, and then besides your mother mentioned just then that you have a rabid pet hamster. Remember, these students have been reading the little red book all day prior to this light relief.

Dare I mention those Harmer clips again as evidence of degree - better, to be sure, but IMHO cut from the same cloth. And Liz Shue and Christopher Hitchens' fey brother would soon be veering towards the "extreme" if plonked into these large classes.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:00 am Post subject:

The Harmer clips show no evidence of language degradation.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

nellychess, the lesson intro shown in the video is awful. The few minutes I got through before cutting her off (as I'd have done in real life as well) was nothing but a Teacher Show.

She's got extremely little idea of what the students are actually taking in/following (and even though this is China where general English skills are reputed to be low, I expect she is talking down to them dramatically). And as already pointed out, the model she is providing as a listening lesson is way below normal standards.

Listening is only one of the four skills (speaking/reading/writing). Listening and reading are receptive, and therefore tend to be a fall-back for untrained or incompetent teachers - the teacher can just provide 'stuff' in receptive lessons. Productive skills are those that actually allow students to practice using the language that they have. Bottom line is that everyone knows a native speaker of English can speak English. It's more about whether the students can do so.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:23 am Post subject:

The language may not be degraded, but I am not sure it is 100% high value. Even the target language (what little there explicitly is) contained in those Harmer clips is of questionable value IMHO.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:27 am Post subject:

Fluffy, let's be sure we are using the term 'language degradation' in the same way. What do you understand by it, exactly?

nellychess · Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 187 Location: USA

How would you get a class of that many students to speak? There appear to be 50 or more students in there. It also seems like the desks are bolted down.

I would agree, it seemed like she was talking too much, and her method of bringing random students up seemed inefficient, but what else can she do?

I'm interested in how to select students to speak, or how to put them in groups.

At first, I thought it was ridiculous the way she was speaking, but the students seemed to be of a very low level, although how would she know that?

fluffyhamster · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:57 am Post subject:

It isn't a term that I've come across much if at all, but given the context(s) I'd say it means that the teacher's language has become so stilted, slow, babyish, whatever and inauthentic as to be worthless for developing aural comprehension and ability in the learner. Again, I don;t think the clip in question here was THAT bad, but as I have been trying to suggest again and again and again, it is rarely that I see ANY clip where I think "Ooh, that was a nice genuine but eminently acquirable bit of talk from the teacher there" (cf. teacher talk plain bland and literally simple).

fluffyhamster · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:00 am Post subject:

nomad soul · Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world

Yikes! I admit to watching only 6 minutes of that video---that was all I could tolerate. Painful. By the way, under video description, she states: "This was my first ever planned lesson in my first tefl position. This is my 15th class of the week on this lesson plan so I had it pretty well rehearsed at this point!" Ironically, she has a degree in drama (and very likely, zero TEFL training).