Job Discussion Forums

[Threequalseven]

My girlfriend and I already have our tickets booked for Vietnam, and the plan has thus far been to find work in HCMC. However, a recent development has come up. I learned that my girlfriend is incredibly afraid of motorbikes - crotch rockets, scooters, anything. To be fair, her fear is legitimate because she lost a very close relative to a motorcycle accident in the U.S. That said, she also seems afraid of even the idea of me having one.

I didn't realize this when we bought our tickets, but I guess she was under the impression that "just because everyone else has one, doesn't mean we need to get them." I.e. she's thinking we can get by on just public transportation, bicycling, taxis, and so on. I don't know if this is really viable though, because everybody always says "the first thing you need to do is buy a motorbike!" I've expressed interest in getting one, despite her fear. However, to add fuel to the flame, I've never ridden anything beyond a bicycle. So, it's like a triple whammy: I'd need to learn, traffic is notoriously dangerous, girlfriend would worry.

So, what do you think? Does anyone know anyone who doesn't have a motorcycle in HCMC? Is it possible? Should we vie for a smaller city in Vietnam instead? Or should we say f*** it altogether and try teaching somewhere else?

[skarper]

It's possible but difficult.

Taxis are cheap but can often try to scam you.

If you just have one trip to and from school to do and live near everything else you want then you might manage.

Calling taxis is difficult and hailing them in out of the way spots is also a problem.

Buses are cheap but not pleasant. Crowded, sweaty etc.

I don't ride a motorbike but am often a passenger - that is scary too but traffic here is not so bad.

From this and other posts I fear you have not done your Vietnam homework and will have a lot of teething troubles.

If you both have degrees you should probably try Korea for a year or two. That will give you the cash to travel SEA for 3+ months before you go back to the States...

[ExpatLuke]

I lived a year in Hanoi with no motorbike, but it was very inconvenient. They have buses that go almost everywhere in the city, so it's definitely doable. The buses are extremely cheap too, but you will often have to take several different ones to get where you want to go. Also, I've had several of my female friends report that they were groped on a crowded bus. So it does happen fairly regularly.

Taxis are marginally more convenient, but it seems there's never one around when you REALLY need one. And as stated above, many of the drivers in Hanoi will try to scam you, so you have to watch meter very carefully or know about how much your trip should cost. Never get in a taxi with a "broken" or missing meter.

You will probably wind up feeling a little isolated and frustrated than you would if you had your own transportation.

It's also worth mentioning that your poll option "go to one of the smaller cities so you don't need a motorbike" isn't viable. The city would have to be awfully small to not need a bike. Danang is much smaller than Hanoi and Hoi An, but I think life would be more difficult here without a bike. The city is more spread out and divided by a river, so walking everywhere would be impossible.

EDIT: A possible alternative would be to get one of the electric bicycles many people have. It's mostly university students who drive these around.

[vabeckele]

I don't know how Expat managed, but also, a friend of mine kept a xe om(personal motorbike driver) on call, this would be your best alternative to not having your own bike.

I think I managed a week or two and got a motorbike, as soon as that happened my world expanded ten fold.

The taxi drivers are not even sophisticated, they would drive up and down the same street and tell you you are wrong - Such blatant idiots. Some of them even start to pretend to cry, what an embarrassment.

This friend had good reason not to drive...he couldn't, not even a bike.

I personally wouldn't hack Vietnam without a bike.

[ajc19810]

I have lots of friends who wisely opt not to drive a motorbike and they have a great time, but Vabeckele's spot on, a motorbike opens up your world and vietnam experience.


IMO: Vietnam is all about the motorbikes.


Also, consider riding a push bike. No hills. Well...not many.

[skarper]

Electric and normal bicycles are no safer than a motorbike - maybe less so since you lack power to put on a spurt in a tight squeeze and you are silent and therefore even more invisible to the cars and trucks.

I limit my time on motorbikes and wouldn't get on one in Hanoi or HCMC ever but I live a very quiet and isolated life which I actually prefer anyway.

Even in Danang walking very far is never an attractive option. Too hot or too rainy for half the year and the rest of the year the broken cluttered sidewalks make it tedious. You can never get into any kind of a stride.

[Threequalseven]

[vabeckele]

I may get flamed for this, but here goes...I would and do want to limit the amount of smaller, daily financial transactions with local people I am not familiar with. Vietnam, unfortunately, is a place where people at the very least try to take an advantage if it is there. If there is one prevailing quality here it is this, good or bad.

Walking is not impossible, but really stressful. I feel more stressed walking in the city than driving.

Taxis will become expensive, even at 2.5 dollars a go if you hop in 3 or 4 rides a day... The only way to not get scammed EVERY SINGLE TIME is to purchase a taxi card which they swipe. The scammers will just drive away.

Cycling is free but is just as dangerous as any form of transportation on the road.

Buses are cheap, really cheap but local buses have no air-conditioning. And as one poster mentioned, getting around can be troublesome as you need connecting buses for, sometimes short trips. Buses are slow too and hopping from one school to another is just not possible (unfortunately, this is also part of making a crust here for many). Lastly, no one can arrive in a county and start hopping on and off buses, learning the routes etc. takes time (something I have never really bothered with here).

Would you consider a tricycle? They have more of a 'presence' over a bike and may provide more stability and security.

If you live in the 'centre of it all' it wouldn't be so bad but any distance from work and play make Vietnam a problem without personal transportation in the form of a (motor)bike.

You could ask a school to pay travel allowances and some do pay about 100k a day. That would cover at least one way, if not both in a taxi.

[ExpatLuke]

It sounds like his girlfriend just has an irrational fear of motorized bikes in general. It doesn't sound like she's overly concerned about traffic or driving habits in Vietnam. If this is the case, a bicycle or electric bike could be a fine solution.

[Threequalseven]

[mark_in_saigon]

I would not say the gf has an IRRATIONAL fear, and if she gets on one for any amount of time over here, she will realize her fear is well founded. Not everyone drives like a maniac, but as there is no real control, plenty do. The constant push push push also pushes normal drivers to drive too fast, they get tired of everyone pushing them around and so they push back. I am even seeing girls drive way too aggressively here, usually they are the more careful ones, but this environment is bringing out the worst in everyone.

Having said all that, I think it is not realistic to expect to live here without using motorbikes. Even the folks who have cars cannot really use them all the time, lots of locations are just too difficult for cars to navigate and park, and of course a car is very expensive and you have to have a place to keep it. You could get around by taxi, but the expense would eat up the reason for being here. You could just stay in your room all the time and not go anywhere. Walking is ridiculous, probably as dangerous as a moto, and sidewalks are largely unusable for pedestrians. Buses take forever and do not take you to the door of where you are going. A bicycle or electric bike is at least as dangerous as a motorbike, probably moreso. You can find your own personal xe om, not gaining much with that, you would need two, you are then more or less supporting them if you expect them to be there at all times, they are not always the most upstanding citizens and you are still in traffic on a moto.

Motorbikes can actually be one of the great joys in life here. You can get some great old classics and get them modified for high performance and to meet modern standards with brakes and lights and power. They look great and can be quite powerful. But in my opinion, living here assumes that any day could be your last, and if not, just being here may take years off your life (see the recent story on lead in the air, the whole environment is so poisoned it is incredible), so folks who are nervous about issues of longevity really should not come to live in VN.

[cb400]

I had a gf who hated my 'big' motorbike... had to get a new a gf

[mark_in_saigon]

Absolutely. In VN, if your gf does not like your motorbike, it is a much better decision to find a new gf than it is to change motorbikes. I learned this the hard way. Any girl who is too snooty to be seen on a classic (but older) Cub or 67 is going to be a royal pain, despite your ability to financially support her. Her focus is going to be rapid accumulation of material possessions, that is likely the rationale for the relationship. A girl who will hang with you on whatever motorbike you choose is likely a better choice, or at least does not automatically disqualify herself like the ones who insist on a flashy bike.

[cb400]

I had one gf tell me that I should trade my CB400SF in for a Honda SH, as it had more status and the Vietnamese would 'respect' me more. After I stopped laughing I excused myself and went home, leaving Ms Status to take a taxi.

The SH seems the epitome of Vietnamese stupidity and gullibility. A scooter designed for the 'large western women' (honda's words not mine) does not make you cool. I used to enjoy, getting alongside a hairdo on a SH and revving the engine to 12 000 RPM with a racing exhaust... served no purpose but fun as hell to bring these guys down to earth, especially when they are driving like idiots.

[ExpatLuke]

It seems the bottom line is that for most of us, now that we have had motorbikes, and learned the ins and outs of the traffic, we can't really imagine going back to not having one.

Our lives are much more convenient and free. But you CAN live here without one. Many people do. But you will take a bit to your overall quality of life. As someone said already, owning a bike here can be one of the things you really come to enjoy. I've even considered buying a motorcycle if I ever move back to the states.

I'm not a big fan of the classics like some of the users here. I prefer the more sporty bikes you can get away with in danang.