Job Discussion Forums

[feathers]

Hi there,

My husband is getting a skype interview from what I can see is a good employer in Saudi.

I'm rushing around trying to do research on Saudi to see what we may or may not be getting into, so I'd appreciate answers to some questions. (I've read some of the book, Culture Shock, Saudi Arabia, and quite frankly, I feel a bit freaked out so I want to ask teachers for some informed responses).

1. How restrictive is it for a trailing spouse? Please let me know what I'm up against, in your opinion.

2. I'm actually also a well qualified and really experienced teacher ESL and Licenced High English School teacher, too. So, as a trailing spouse, how easy would it be for me to look for work, once I'm there.

3. I'm worried that some Saudi companies might take the expat's passport (and possibly the spouses too) to "keep" them until the contract is finished. This is my interpretation of something I read in the Culture Shock book. Is this true, or just me jumping to a conclusion?

4. How easy would it be for a trailing spouse to take a break and go to another country and come back later, if I just need to get away from Saudi for a while.

5. If I have only my husband with me, what would that restrict me to. Obviously I'd have to wait for him to come home before I can go out, right?

6. What are the compounds like? Can you describe them a little to me?

7. How long have you found that visas take to be processed, and how long does a trailing spouse have to wait to be able to join a husband?

8. What are the easiest places for a trailing spouse to live? I've heard that Jedda has more freedom but Riyadh doesn't.

9. Do you have any other helpful information that you can pass on to me before his skype interview?

[nomad soul]

It would be helpful to know which employer his interview is with.

[cmp45]

[veiledsentiments]

With your credentials, you may want to be certain that your husband only accepts a position in Jeddah or Riyadh so that you can also find work. There will be international schools there that could probably use you. (stick to those that have expat kids in attendance if possible)

Other than this generality, as was said... answering your questions depends on the employer. Having a good employer is crucial and if you read around on this board, you will see that they are rather rare in Saudi.

VS

[myohmy]

[feathers]

Hi there,

I appreciate the answers I am getting because quite frankly I've been nervous about living in Saudi. Some have asked what company it is, which is ligitimate for your trying to answer my questions. I just don't want to say yet because my husband is still in the process of the interview, and as you know it might not be the wisest to say this on an open forum at this point (after all recruiters do read forums too). What I can say to you is that upon asking a friend of mine who has worked in Saudi, she said "I'm jealous that he's hit the Saudi jackpot." I guess that means that it is really one of the best employers. Maybe I can tell you after he has had the interview.

I learned that Riyadh is very conservative for women. My friend is living in Jeddah and says that she doesn't have to wear the abaya there (wow, how nice for her!) She says it is more flexible but warned me about Riyadh as being extremely conservative for women. Your thought? Do you agree with this?

Can you also comment on some of my other questions. As I said, any feedback is appreciated. I'm just worried that it would be a year that I would enjoy - I don't want to be really bored or feel so controlled that I can't breath. I'm hoping that a compound is nice - maybe some of you could fill me in on what they are like - and I'm hoping that if I'm not working at first that I could meet people when my husband is working - even if it is on the compound. By the way, do the abayas HAVE to be black in colour? It is such a hot colour in the heat so I'm wondering if women can wear abayas that are made exactly the same but in light breathable fabrics and lighter colours - an odd question, but hey, maybe relevant to a person who is travelling around in a hot black sauna tent

One last question in this post - I've heard that the Saudi employers do take your passport when you work there (I suppose they take your spouses passport too). This would make teachers feel like prisoners, right? So what happens to a teacher, or to his wife, if either of them (or both) want to travel to another country? For that matter, what happens if they don't like it and want to break the contract and leave? Not that anyone goes to a country hoping for that, but it is something to consider right before you sign on the dotted line, right?

Thanks and any feedback is truly helpful.

[nomad soul]

[MixtecaMike]

Your husband will probably hand in his passport to the employer in exchange for his iqama, which is not a problem if he has a good employer. As your husband will be your sponsor, he will hold your passport, so you will be able to get your own exit/re-entry visa and travel abroad whenever he lets you.
How long it takes for your visa to be processed depends on his employer, but in theory once he has an iqama he can process his dependents' visas in a week or so, if you have all the papers ready by then.

[veiledsentiments]

[trapezius]

I can answer the abaya question with regard to Jeddah from personal experience - no, I am not a transvestite! I will give you examples of what my wife wore and what I saw/see other women wearing, and then give my recommendations. But remember, these are only for Jeddah.

My wife always wore her abaya, but almost always never covered her head or hair. Only time she did cover her hair was when going to conservative or old parts of town. But in malls and restaurants and while in the car, never. She did go out without an abaya a couple of times ever, but made sure she was wearing baggy trousers and a loose long sleeve button down shirt which covered her back side as well. Plus, both articles of clothing were dark and drab. When she went out like that, she did wrap a scarf around her neck so that she didn't have to button her shirt all the way, which would have looked ridiculous anyway. She did not attract any gawkers when she went out without an abaya. She always travels without an abaya though, so she goes to the airport without one and lands without one, dressed as I explained. We have seen other women without abayas, but extremely rarely. We might spot one once a month. But remember, if you choose to go out without an abaya, only safe place to go is modern malls and restaurants. No walking on the streets like that or going to small street side shops.

Now to color and style. Jeddah is full of different colors, shapes, and designs. I would estimate more than 95% are still black, but you are guaranteed to see a few non-black ones every time you are in a mall. Dark blue, dark brown, light brown, khaki, dark grey, light grey, burgundy, dark purple, and I believe even white. Those are the colors you can expect to come across in fancy malls. Then you also find black abayas with lace, embroidered or sequined edges, or even large embroidered/sequined areas at the sides and back. Crystals also! These are a lot more prevalent than colored ones. Of the black ones, you can expect to see around a quarter decorated ones. The decorations are usually brightly colored, as laces, embroidery threads and sequins tend to be, but some are black. Bright/metallic pinks, blues, greens, yellows, and white crystals. As for shapes, while most abayas fall straight down, you will find some women wearing fitted ones, even embarrassingly so! Some are just tighter overall. Some have elasticated waists or drawstrings around the waist, even though the abaya itself could be loose. A lot of such abayas are quite tight at the back side and show the body's every movement and curve. What's the purpose of wearing one like that? Well, since an abaya is quasi-required by the government, they put one on, making it obvious they wouldn't wear one if it wasn't required. BTW, all these colored, decorated, and fitted abayas that I described, are mostly worn by Saudis, especially the really tight and/or brightly decorated ones. Other styles/shapes I have seen are what I have named the "Sports Abaya" or "Track Suit Abaya", which is usually made of some stretchy material and is not shiny black like typical black abayas. Some come with an attached hoodie, and nearly all have "sports stripes", a colored strip lining some of the edges, but not made of lace or shiny fabric - the kind of stripes you see on track suits, in baby blue, baby pink, or light yellow. These are very very rare, and are custom made. Another one is the "Kimono Abaya". It comes with kimono-style sleeves which could be a foot or more wide at the wrists, as well as other design elements from a kimono. Also rare, but not as rare as the sports abaya.

What do I recommend? I would strongly recommend always wearing an abaya when you go out. You can experiment like my wife did by going out without one, but only a couple of times. I am surprised your friend always goes out without one. but you can only do that when going to malls. As for colors, get any color you like. If it is available in a shop, it is most probably socially acceptable. Just make sure it is a color which doesn't stand out too much, especially if you yourself stand out by virtue of your skin color, hair color, height, etc. Dark blues, browns, and grays are increasing in popularity, as are the light grays and khakis, but really, any non-attractive color is fine. Decorations, again quite safe, as long as you feel comfortable wearing them. If you think you might attract too much attention, then go with plain ones, or ones with little decoration. As for fitted ones, I wouldn't mess with those, as men usually stare at them. A loose abaya with a draw string at the waist is ok, but not a tight abaya.

My wife did have some non-black and decorated abayas, and I would be happy to send you (or to anybody else who is curious) pictures of said abayas if you pm me your email address. BTW, I have been tasked with selling them (my wife left) so if anybody is interested, let me know!

Sheesh... perhaps I should do a Ph.D. in Abayalogy

[nomad soul]

[veiledsentiments]

Fascinating Trap... are the varied colors common outside of Jeddah?

Any takers for an update on other cities, like Riyadh? My guess is that the smaller cities in the conservative areas are still black.

VS

[trapezius]

I stayed in Ha'il for 6 months, it was all black and undecorated and faces covered as well.

I suspect Khobar/Dhahran is similar to Jeddah, and likely, even more colorful. I have never been there.

I have been to Riyadh once, straight from airport to US Embassy, and straight back, so I can't say anything about Riyadh. But I think in the posh malls there should be a tiny percentage of women who stray from the all-black undecorated abaya.

[myohmy]

I've never seen anything but black in Riyadh. And while there may be a small percentage in Jeddah who wear something different, there certainly isn't a sea of color to behold.

[cmp45]

What Trap. described can also be seen in Riyadh in many of the upscale malls like the Kingdom Tower and Riyadh Gallery mall etc. I have occasionally seen western women out grocery shopping without an abaya, granted it's a rare occurrence.