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Unsettling interview - nervous!
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trapezius



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you guys seen resumes of any Arabs or South Asians? They always include a picture, date of birth, citizenship, marital status, religion, and sometimes even father's name and number of children.

I studied in the US, so I am used to the US style, which doesn't include any of that info. The first time I came across one of those weird ones was when a colleague asked me to look at his résumé. First thing I noticed, at the top he had all this personal information. I was baffled and asked him why had included that info. I told him to take it all out as resumes aren't supposed to have that. Then over the years I came across more of them, and figured that's standard practice at least for Arabs and South Asians. Other Asians, I don't know.

I still find it weird, and have never and will never put that info in my résumé. Anyway, there is no space. If an employer needs that info, I have a separate one page addendum that includes that info.


Last edited by trapezius on Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Wilsonthefarmer



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 152
Location: Riding my black horse

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A CV is diffferent from a resume.
In the Middle East, Europe, Africa, and Asia, employers may expect to receive a curriculum vitae rather than a resume.
In general, employers in the Middle East expect your CV to include:

- Age
- Nationality
- Marital status
- etc
http://www.michaelpage.ae/content/18047/career-advice.html

In the Magic Kingdom, most of the universties application forms for jobs ask for your religion, date of birth, family status (if married you need to provide number and names of dependants, etc). Some application forms ask for your photo to be included as well (e.g KFUPM form).

Middle Eastern CVs
Should you include your age?
A definite yes in the Middle East.
“In western markets, people are concerned about age discrimination, particularly if you’re over 40,” says Peter Greaves, director, head of financial markets at headhunters McArthur Murray in Dubai. “In the Gulf, a lot of experience is generally viewed as a plus point, so most people include their age. It only becomes an issue if you’re over 60.”

Weirdly, perhaps, local banks are interested in gaining a little information about your family situation. Putting in your marital status, and even a little about your children could serve to your advantage.

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/8510/how-to-adapt-your-cv-for-jobs-in-the-middle-east-asia-and-australia/
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trapezius wrote:


I still find it weird, and have never and will never put that info in my résumé. Anyway, there is no space. If an employer needs that info, I have a separate one page addendum that includes that info.


The Japanese and Koreans usually like resumes or CVs with photos and addresses, citizenship, phone numbers, and emails on them, the photo to the right and prior mentioned information on the left at the top side by side. The Japanese especially like that format for the first part of the resume. Do it however you wish, but it could impede getting a job in those two countries.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Weirdly, perhaps, local banks are interested in gaining a little information about your family situation. Putting in your marital status, and even a little about your children could serve to your advantage.

This is similar to how US insurance carriers assess insurance rates. That is, being married and having a family to support is perceived as being stable, reliable, and responsible and therefore, less of a risk compared to others in the same age group but who are unmarried and without dependents.

For positions in this region, I always indicate my nationality, sex, DOB, and that I'm a native speaker (I have a non-western sounding name and wasn't born in the US)---info that fits on one line on my CV. Even if I've emailed the image of my passport page, I still include my basic personal info so that it's evident I meet the nationality/age/gender qualifications---the info's there in case my CV gets printed out separately. I've only disclosed religion and marital status on application forms (if required) and on my residency paperwork.
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babur



Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 178
Location: Dammam, Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: iqama Reply with quote

Quote:
By the way, the color of the iqama indicates whether the holder is 'Muslim' or 'Non-Muslim.'
only written. new cards all the same color.
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious. In order to be considered a Muslim in the KSA does an expat have to provide an authentication from an Imam where his is from originally?
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Wilsonthefarmer



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 152
Location: Riding my black horse

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plumpy nut wrote:
I'm curious. In order to be considered a Muslim in the KSA does an expat have to provide an authentication from an Imam where his is from originally?

When you apply for the visa to enter the Magic Kingdom, you need to state your religion in the visa form. If you are a convert (or a revert?) to Islam, then you need to have a conversion certificate from the Imam or the Islamic centre stating that you have converted to Islam by pronouncing the Shahada. The conversion certificate must be notarized by an Islamic Center.
“*If you have converted to Islam, please also include a copy of your conversion certificate. Also, if you are Muslim (even if born into the faith), but your name is not a traditional Arabic Muslim name, the Embassy may request a letter from your mosque, confirming that you are Muslim”
http://www.hziegler.com/articles/visa-process-for-saudi-arabia-for-americans.html
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jaffa



Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wilsonthefarmer wrote:
If you are a convert (or a revert?) to Islam, then you need to have a conversion certificate from the Imam or the Islamic centre stating that you have converted to Islam by pronouncing the Shahada. The conversion certificate must be notarized by an Islamic Center.


LOL! So you need to be certified!

What about if you don't believe a word of it? Can you get a certificate for that too?
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Trips



Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa wrote:
Wilsonthefarmer wrote:
If you are a convert (or a revert?) to Islam, then you need to have a conversion certificate from the Imam or the Islamic centre stating that you have converted to Islam by pronouncing the Shahada. The conversion certificate must be notarized by an Islamic Center.


LOL! So you need to be certified!

What about if you don't believe a word of it? Can you get a certificate for that too?


Ridiculous. Just tell your employer you are Muslim.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Now start working on your remaining documents (as listed below). As soon as they are all complete, please courier them (using an overnight service) to your recruitment company. These documents will include:

• Original medical lab test results (copies of these are fine as long as they are initialed by your physician);

Note: Some sponsors ask for medical lab tests or medical forms (Pap smear, ECG, vaccination reports, Pre-Employment Physical Form, etc.) which are beyond what is required for the visa application (refer to the Medicals section above for the complete list of medicals required for the visa). If some of the medical lab test results which are required by your sponsor are not yet ready by the time you are sending your visa documents by courier, include the medical results you have for the visa, and fax/email the other results (the ones required by your sponsor) when they are ready.

• Medical Report Forms (in triplicate) completed in full by your physician;

• Original passport;

• Completed visa application form and memo *If you have converted to Islam, please also include a copy of your conversion certificate. Also, if you are Muslim (even if born into the faith), but your name is not a traditional Arabic Muslim name, the Embassy may request a letter from your mosque, confirming that you are Muslim;

• Five passport photos* in color, on a white background. Please ensure you hand-carry an additional 10 photos with you to Saudi Arabia. Photos are required for nearly every application (i.e. gym membership, Residency Visa, etc.)

• Original police clearance certificate This document must be dated within 3 months of the date your application is submitted to the embassy.;"

http://www.hziegler.com/articles/visa-process-for-saudi-arabia-for-americans.html

Regards,
John
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Trips



Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
"Now start working on your remaining documents (as listed below). As soon as they are all complete, please courier them (using an overnight service) to your recruitment company. These documents will include:

• Original medical lab test results (copies of these are fine as long as they are initialed by your physician);

Note: Some sponsors ask for medical lab tests or medical forms (Pap smear, ECG, vaccination reports, Pre-Employment Physical Form, etc.) which are beyond what is required for the visa application (refer to the Medicals section above for the complete list of medicals required for the visa). If some of the medical lab test results which are required by your sponsor are not yet ready by the time you are sending your visa documents by courier, include the medical results you have for the visa, and fax/email the other results (the ones required by your sponsor) when they are ready.

• Medical Report Forms (in triplicate) completed in full by your physician;

• Original passport;

• Completed visa application form and memo *If you have converted to Islam, please also include a copy of your conversion certificate. Also, if you are Muslim (even if born into the faith), but your name is not a traditional Arabic Muslim name, the Embassy may request a letter from your mosque, confirming that you are Muslim;

• Five passport photos* in color, on a white background. Please ensure you hand-carry an additional 10 photos with you to Saudi Arabia. Photos are required for nearly every application (i.e. gym membership, Residency Visa, etc.)

• Original police clearance certificate This document must be dated within 3 months of the date your application is submitted to the embassy.;"

http://www.hziegler.com/articles/visa-process-for-saudi-arabia-for-americans.html

Regards,
John


Yeah they aren't going to request that letter.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Trip,

Maybe they don't anymore - but I know that it was required by the converts I worked with over there.

Do you have a link to any source telling that it's no longer required?

Regards,
John
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Trips



Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear Trip,

Maybe they don't anymore - but I know that it was required by the converts I worked with over there.

Do you have a link to any source telling that it's no longer required?

Regards,
John


John, I'm saying that if you want to act Muslim in Saudi Arabia, all you have to do is say you are Muslim. I can't express it clearer than that.

The letter I'm referring to is the one from your mosque if your name isn't Arab enough. Note the qualifier may. They won't be asking for that letter.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Trip,

No link?

And I guess you don't think it might be a good idea to get one in case the embassy or the visa service asks for one (as in the underlined portion of my previous post.)

Well, maybe we'd better let the OP decide about that.

Regards,
John
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Trips



Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear Trip,

No link?

And I guess you don't think it might be a good idea to get one in case the embassy or the visa service asks for one (as in the underlined portion of my previous post.)

Well, maybe we'd better let the OP decide about that.

Regards,
John


You're not getting my point.
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