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peculiar behavior
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kanjizai



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: peculiar behavior Reply with quote

Ive been in Japan for nine years and the one thing that I see quite often is students feigning misunderstanding, and getting some kind of perverse sense of enjoyment out of it, like it is some kind of game--which it may very well be.

The reason that I ask is, it is not isolated to a certain age group, gender, 'intelligence' level, or region in Japan.

I know that it can be said that people around the world exhibit these behaviors, and I agree. But, I see it so often that it seems like it is something that is somehow codified within acceptable social interactions.

As an example, a student will ask a question, receive an answer, then ask about something else that is unrelated or completely change the subject. So that I am clear, this is about students using this technique to avoid/refuse doing a task(e.g. give an opinion, give an answer).

Id like to know if anyone else has seen this and what your thoughts in it are.

Thanks
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kah5217



Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 270
Location: Ibaraki

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been my experience that students will understand most of the time, but refuse to answer not because they don't know, but because they want their answer to be perfect. I can't tell you how many tests I've graded where they had the correct (or a mostly correct) answer down but then erased it.
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possible explanations:
1. Childish rebellion against the teacher
2. They want to avoid standing out or being "too good" at English
3. A sense of "I'm Japanese so I shouldn't speak English"

I have taught a lot of adults who simply sit there mumbling "wakaranai" for the whole lesson and then tell the staff the lesson was very difficult (even when that student did rather well).
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The students may be attempting to elicit amae behavior from you. Japanese people see eliciting indulgence from a superior as a positive behavior. People elicit indulgence by feigning helplessness in front of a superior.

Psychologist Takeo Doi wrote The Anatomy of Dependence in which he describes the behavior and function of amai.

Going the other way, when someone superior to you perceives your need, allow them to indulge you. Japan is a vertical culture where senior people look after junior.
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kanjizai



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TokyoLiz Thanks for the resource. I was hoping you answered and you did. Cheers!
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, nine years and you only just asked about, and became aware of, this aspect of vertical culture.

To be fair, I've been here a few years longer than you. For years, I was frustrated by shopping experiences - people cutting I front of me. Damn, Japanese are rude, I thought. Until last year, when it dawned on me that my personal distance is greater than locals. I wasn't standing close enough to indicate I was in line...

I stopped asking students I open class for answers. Instead, I get students to chorally say the answer when I'm confident that most of them will be correct. When they make a mistake, I prompt them. "Really?" And point out the error. So often students can correct themselves when they are made aware of the error.

I never ask opinion questions in open class. I model the question and answer forms, and then have the students interact with each other.

My class sizes are between 10 and 40+ students. If I want to monitor student interactions, I put them in groups of 3-6 people, and each member of a group takes a turn to stand and say answers, opinions, taking notes, etc. That way all students are either speaking or listening, checking or taking notes. I hear only a quarter of the students' voices and I can respond to and coach struggling people.

The classroom can get noisy, but only at intervals. I use my iPhone timer to create time pressure. Students of all ages like the alarm sounds.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that is why I use Japanese in class: to know if they get it or not.
If a students asks another for the answer he/she doesn`t know.

Sometimes they don`t know since they don`t pay attention or were sleeping.
If you grade their participation, you hold them accountable.
Getting them to understand what participation exactly is, is a challenge.

Instead of acting out students can act in.
Try no opt out:
elicit answers. when a student doesn`t know, ask one who does, then the first student must repeat.
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tokyo Liz, Mitsui,

Good suggestions and helpful for all to consider when working with Japanese students.

I've taught in several Asian countries and with students from Vietnam, Thailand, Myanmar, China and without a shadow of a doubt, the Japanese students are the most difficult to work with.

Working with Japanese students has been the most frustrating teaching experience I've had when compared with the other students I've worked with.

I cannot believe the out-and-out resistance to the teacher by Japanese students. Many simply refuse to be engaged or participate in the classroom and have no interest in learning English.

And I don't necessarily mean aggressive resistance, either. I mean more of a passive resistance towards the teacher and the subject, like what has been mentioned by the OP. For example, faking misunderstanding or simply shutting down and refusing to particpate or muttering "Eigo kirai" or "Eigo hanashitakunai".

The conspiracy here is that, and it might not be all that apparent, English is not really supposed to be learned in Japan. It's all a ruse. The government doesn't want English use to be increased by the people, Japanese companies do not want to see English use increased, and even Japanese English teachers don't like English, refusing to speak it at all costs outside the classroom.

It's all a real mind bend, but the whole idea that English is truly supposed to be learned by Japanese in Japan is a myth.

Anyways, I'm getting off track. But my Japanese students drain me of my energy and I have to work really hard at monitoring my heart rate. I won't ever like dealing with Japanese students, though. Some are nice and I have had some good experiences with older retired or corporate professionals working on TOEIC, etc. But specifically with Japanese high school and university students, they just wear me out.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been covered before in Brian McVeigh`s book
Japanese Higher Education as Myth.
Look for it on Amazon. It rings true even though it is sobering reading.
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McVeigh's book is relevant when you are dealing with the products of post-secondary education in Japan - teachers and workers.

Yes, Japan only needs an elite group to speak foreign languages, so the most rigorous language programs are reserved for only certain contexts - private high schools, and international language universities like Kanda.

Unlike other posters, I find teaching Japanese youth, elementary and high school kids, rewarding and mostly fun. It's the context in which I teach, too, that makes it easy - for the most part, elementary school kids are deeply curious about the world, and the easiest to engage in interactive activities. The high schools I've worked at have rigorous English programs, and the students and their families choose these schools for their English programs.

These self-selecting groups generally get excited about learning. Sure, I have a few distracted, sleepy kids, but when I jolly them along, they perform as well as the middle kids.
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jrwhisky



Joined: 07 Jul 2013
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly had the opposite expectations really. I even served in Japan through the Navy and meeting and seeing Japanese people in parties at bars and various places I thought, gawd these people are fun, so I put it up on my list of places to teach. Strangely the Japanese students are stereotyped as extremely obedient and respectful to their teachers from the American standpoint. Well that's a stereotype. Perhaps one only for the Japanese teachers to enjoy but I'm not sure. My first week I was about to Samuel Jackson them after finding out their true nature. Now I take hikes and long bikes throughout the country side and islands as therapy and see the resistance as expected and as a challenge. If I can get them engaged or interested I consider it a win or new level of achievement and hopefully some point understand them well enough to push them into actually enjoying English class and all that sort of rubbish.
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RustyShackleford



Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my time in Japan, choral answering and no opt-out were both life-savers. It increased student confidence and it made even slackers accountable.

I remember one kid who absolutely hated English and would tell me as such, but he liked me because I was pretty open about my hobbies and we shared a few. When calling students for individual answers, I made sure he got some time and, after a few times having little Yuri-chan get the answer and him repeating it, he started actually being a part of the class.

I'm not sure how much the whole anti-English conspiracy holds true given the reforms and various long lectures on Japan's place in the ESL world I've sat through. McVeigh aside, most of this stuff seems anecdotal and, on the flipside, I have seen, with much ironic amusement, that the teachers who "hate English" the most are the ones pushing for its use in class.

Funny enough, Solar, although I love how Vietnamese students are, perhaps, a bit more open about expressing their opinions, I do get tired dealing with the resistance to classroom participation that the tricks I learned in Japan don't seem to be applying as they could.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kah5217 wrote:
It's been my experience that students will understand most of the time, but refuse to answer not because they don't know, but because they want their answer to be perfect. I can't tell you how many tests I've graded where they had the correct (or a mostly correct) answer down but then erased it.


This is so true you know what I do? I tell the studnets that they cant use the erasers or pencils. I ahve a box of pens for doing things like listening tests and exercises and stuff because otherwise when they ar writing answers they second geuss themselves and start to erase and then they dont even here the next question and they miss it! Shocked

So, be firm and polite: "No erasers or even pencils!!!" Mad Very Happy

Cool
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's the like button for Cool Teacher and Rusty?
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marley'sghost



Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: peculiar behavior Reply with quote

kanjizai wrote:


As an example, a student will ask a question, receive an answer, then ask about something else that is unrelated or completely change the subject. So that I am clear, this is about students using this technique to avoid/refuse doing a task(e.g. give an opinion, give an answer).

Id like to know if anyone else has seen this and what your thoughts in it are.

Thanks


Are you talking about public schools and kids here, or business classes, private lesssons, eikaiwa and the like?
If you are talking about kids in the public schools, Wow! They actually ask you questions? Awesome! I'm a JHS ALT, I almost never see that. Usually the only questions I get are from the delinquents who were not paying attention during the activity demonstration. Once they realize there is a lesson in progress, they will occasionally pause in their personal amusements to ask, "So, what are we doing?"

If it's adult business/conversation classes, heck it's their time and money. Let them talk about what they want. No worries.
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