Job Discussion Forums

[Sashadroogie]

From reading various threads on some of the boards, I have come across the recurring comment that the Celta is out of date. I am not sure what this really means, or what innovation the commentators would like to see in the Celta's place.

Perhaps some kind soul could explain what is meant by said sentiments?

[fluffyhamster]

Obviously there will always be developments and (technological) innovation such that even the best, most responsive training will be playing catch-up or lose-out a bit. But I'd also be interested in hearing quite what those recent sea changes for ELT might've been (and I've probably not even read whichever threads you're referring to, Sash!).

[Sashadroogie]

Hmmmm, Fluffy. It seems this is of interest only to you and me. Anyway, for your perusal, here are some of the comments I was referring to. Enjoy! And perhaps offer some comments of your own : )


http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=104561


It's a good course but limited in scope and also getting a little dated. I'd like it to undergo a major revamp - but it's a cash cow for Cambridge [and Trinity in the case of their Cert TESOL] so they won't fix something that basically works for them.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=82787&highlight=celta+dated

English Time in Istanbul uses its own materials.
Most of the teachers and students (clients) will admit that the material is very poor.
However you may think that the management would take on board the
CELTA (rather dated) or TESOL (ESA) principles and ideas.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=104420&highlight=outdated+celta

So , I'm currently a college student at a local community college in the USA (I'm American). I plan on getting my associates degree in Liberal Arts, ultimately, I do eventually want to receive a bachelors in Linguistics. However, after getting my associates I was hoping I could take maybe a year off, and teach English abroad. So I'll need a TESOL for this, right? I did some research online and it looks like the CELTA isn't a good idea, something about it being outdated... So I should get a TESOL certification right? Or is the TESOL, TESL and TEFL all the same? I was wondering if someone could give me some more information on what I should do to get started. The online courses are fake, too right? 'Cause whenever I look to register it always talks about taking courses online.. I don't know. Could I still find a job as an English teacher with only a certification and associates degree? I also speak Russian and English, so if I were to teach English abroad in Russia that would help me out right?
Thanks !

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=104488&highlight=outdated+celta

But I sympathise, how the hell can a complete level book set with all of the bells and whistles thrown in cost in excess of 500 dollars? And, although I'm going to have to bend over for this one, the delivery of the CELTA course is outdated and mirrors Britain's past imperialistic empire mindset, which has since long gone. Learning should actually be an enjoyable experience, not one where after a month one is ready to drop.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=103954&highlight=outdated+celta

I'm biased in my view towards International TEFL Academy because our course works with them, but you'll be fine. They run a great program and they offer a lot more assistance than most CELTA courses offer. CELTA and Trinity are both good courses and good organizations, but they are bit outdated in my opinion. Most employers do not prefer them over other 4 week courses and many CELTA courses do not offer job or visa assistance. If you want to check on a course, get into contact with graduates of the program and check for yourself. Every TEFL and CELTA course is different. Find out exactly who you are signing up and what their reputation in the city is.

[nomad soul]

I've never taken the CELTA course, but my understanding is that the CELTA is only an entry-level English language teaching qualification---that it simply provides the basics of EL teaching considered enough to get a newbie's foot in the door. (Keep in mind a degree isn't a requirement to take the CELTA course.) However, once employed, there should be some sort of continued training or at a higher level, professional development for the purpose of staying fresh and current in the industry relevant to the particular teaching situation. That said, although no one has been specific about what they mean by "outdated" (i.e., which element(s) of the course and why), I agree with Skarper (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=104561) that perhaps the CELTA course content, materials, context, and/or delivery needs a facelift of sorts.

By the way...

History of the Cambridge CELTA

- The Cambridge CELTA is an internationally recognised initial qualification for English language teachers in adult education. The model of the course was originally designed by John Haycraft at the International House school in London in the 1960s.

- From 1977 to 1988 the certificate was administered by the Royal Society of Arts (RSA) and became widely known as the "RSA". In 1988 the University of Cambridge Local Examinations Syndicate (UCLES) took over responsibility for the administration of the certificate and it was renamed the Certificate in Teaching English as a Foreign Language to Adults (CTEFLA).

- Following revisions to the syllabus and assessment criteria, the certificate was redesignated as the Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults (CELTA) in 1996. The certificate is now gained by more than 7,000 candidates per year.

Source: http://www.celta-berlin.com/celtahistory.html

[Sashadroogie]

I still do not see what is dated about it as such. Most of the basic principles of effective teaching do not change that much. TTT is never in style. Student-centredness isn't going away any time soon. Sure, there are developments in methodology, leaving things like PPP very much in a minority position currently. But the Celta does not promote one method exclusively in the first place.

As for delivery, in what way can this be improved? Trainees practice with real classes, then they get developmental feedback. How is this old hat? It is precisely the key ingredient missing from all those waste-of-time online courses.

Perhaps that is what is meant by needing a face lift. Maybe these comments are driven by a desire to see more shiny technology in the course? Using Skype, ipads, interactive whiteboards and all that. If so, that would be like saying that somebody who wants to be a serious author needs to update their typing or IT skills, or else they'll never master written prose.

Anybody clarify what exactly is meant by this putative outdatedness?

[vabeckele]

I don't think it will ever be about the content of the course. I think we can all agree upon that.

For me, and for many I know, it is the delivery of the course and the overload of information in such a short space of time. Some argue that it is a training course and thus will not have the atmosphere of a university. I don't see why a training course has to be 'militaristic' in nature either. I have done both academic studies and have trained as a plasterer. I didn't feel I couldn't question the trainer's actions or methods and they certainly didn't want 'to put me in my place.'

Now, I haven't done the CELTA but plan to, no, have to, as it is the standard qualification in this industry. One close friend, a celebrated PhD holder in languages told me if he had known of the stress of the course beforehand he would have never have done it (grade A pass mind). Another, a Cambridge grad, who did it in Cambridge, said he enjoyed it. Even the ones who recommend and swear by the course make it sound very indoctrinating.

[Sashadroogie]

OK. That's more specific, so thanks.

It does sound like having to work hard is the main issue there, though. Not sure that is outdated, but I think it should never be. Celta is intensive, and this is made very clear to all prospective trainees. If nose to the grindstone is a question, then don't do the course. But also, don't get involved in EFL either. I cannot imagine a trained plasterer would shrink from a little sweat.

As for questioning, trainees are supposed to reflect on their learning process. But call into question the very principles that underpin the course that trainees are taking is a total waste of time, for all concerned, so do not expect trainers to engage in lengthy debates as to why there needs to be more student to student interaction based on the target language in order to meet stated lesson aims. The reasons are made clear on the course, but the rationale is not up for debate. This is the same as a course, say, in driving or music. Certain basic ideas must simply be accepted, and mastered. The Celta is short as it is, and cannot afford to get bogged down in needless speculation.

As to that shortness of length, trainees are already paying out a fair sum of money. I doubt many people would be happy with a longer, and therefore more expensive, Celta.

[fluffyhamster]

Why would a