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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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 Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Seemingly in an attempt to demonstrate just how lay one can be,
| Taiping04 wrote: |
| A dictionary is what he needs. |
Despite the fact that reference aids such as dictionaries invariably claim to provide accurate definitions of a given language's words, (and that many - including, it would seem, the 'look-at-me-I'm-a-supertroll-with-an-agenda' 'Taiping04' - may assume a word's meaning is simply its dictionary entry), a little thought should surely show that there must be more to meaning than this.
Though perhaps an obvious point, in order to extract the 'meaning' of a word purely from its dictionary definition, it is a prerequisite that the individual words comprising the entry are 'meaningful' and thus definable, too. The dictionary, for example, to which I most frequently refer (Nuttall's Standard Dictionary of the English Language), which is "based on the labours of the most eminent lexicographers", defines the noun 'house' as "a building for dwelling in", but somewhat paradoxically describes the noun 'building' as "the trade of a builder; an edifice". A 'builder' is defined helpfully as "one who builds", and the entry for 'edifice' reads "a building, especially of some style and dimensions".
Such a process, of course, could be infinite in scale and time-consumption, and is perhaps best demonstrated by attempting to seek the 'meaning' of a given word by referring to a mono-lingual dictionary compiled in a language unknown to the (soon to be) avid researcher. In short, such a venture would be fruitless and (as rapidly established above) would ultimately be conducted to no avail. Quite obviously, 'Taiping04' had not exactly thought this through.
Even the most extensive dictionaries fail to capture even the most elementary features of the 'meanings' of words. For a moments reflection will demonstrate that even apparently 'simple' words tend to possess a myriad of rich semantics.
Consider the noun phrase of (1) below:
(1) [NP [ADJ brown] [N house]]
However, the apparent 'simplicity' and 'austerity' of this two-word string is both deceptive and superficial. For, if I tell you about a brown house, I want you to understand that its exterior is brown, not necessarily its interior. So a brown house is something with a brown exterior.
However, we do not think of a brown house just as a surface. If it were a surface, you could be near the house even if you were inside it. If a box were really a surface, then a marble in the box and another marble outside it at the same distance from the surface would be equidistant from the box.
The complexities do not end here however.
A further look shows that the meanings of such terms are still more complex. If I say I painted my house brown, you understand me to mean that I painted the exterior surface brown; but I can say, perfectly intelligibly, that I painted my house brown on the inside. So we can think of the house as an interior surface, with the background circumstances complicated slightly.
Notice that my house is perfectly concrete. When I return to my house at night, I am returning to a concrete physical thing. On the other hand, it is also abstract: an exterior surface with a designated interior and a marked property that allows it to be an interior surface.
Other words, such as 'book', possess a complex of properties, phonetic and semantic, too.
Suppose the library has two copies of Tolstoy's 'War and Peace'. Peter takes out one, and John the other. Did Peter and John take out the same book, or different books?
The answer lies in the (often overlooked) fact that even 'simple' words such as 'book' can be used by speakers to refer to vastly different objects, viz., to 'concrete', physical objects, or to highly abstract concepts. If we attend to the material factor of the lexical item, they took out different books; if we focus on its abstract component, they took out the same book.
In addition, the two vastly distinct 'meanings' of book can, and indeed often do, occur in the same clause; as demonstrated by "his book is in every store in the country". Such observations go vastly beyond what is recorded in the most comprehensive dictionary (and considered - or able to be considered - by the likes of 'Taiping04'). |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Todd, you can pretty safely ignore most of what Ludwig posts. Charity begins at home they say... well he certainly says anyway...
You can get jobs in India but they are hard to come by. The British Council has a few centres but that may not be an option you want if you really want the idyll you described. NGOs may be your best bet.
I have been to Tamil Nadu and what you describe is possible to find OUTSIDE any location where an English teaching job would be available. If you want work, you are going to have to head for the busyness of the big cities and go and find your idyll out in the countryside at the weekend.
Why not try looking into Kerala too - more rural and, IMHO, more beautful.
All the best... |
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todd
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for the advice. An indonesian friend recommended teaching in Lomboc. I would like to pursue pro bono work, but am fairly destitute in the US and underemployed, consequently I couldn't afford to pay my way in any program. My friend from Indonesia also said that much of the danger is regionalized and overexpressed by the media. I have read similar things in reviews of teaching programs here. Not that I will be inattentive to it...
| Ludwig wrote: |
I fail to see how this makes such languages "exotic", as opposed to merely different in this (particular) regard. Yes, in nominative-accusative languages, such as English, subjects of intransitive and subjects of transitive verbs have the same (nominative) case marking, and in ergative-absolutive languages, the subjects of intransitive verbs and the objects of transitive verbs are marked the same. Subjects of transitive verbs have distinct ergative case marking:
Mary - (ABS) ran
Mary - (ERG) threw the ball - (ABS)
But I still fail to see how this is any way "exotic" as opposed to merely different in this particular feature/parameter. After all - and in total and absolute dismissal of 'Taiping04's' lay suggestions - you would be somewhat hard pressed - to say the very least - to correlate ergativity with any properties of language communities. |
You are funny. Exotic does just mean "different" and the "difference" is "interesting". The ergative-absolutive/nom.-acc. distinction is extremely important in language. Linguists have found that this fundamental distinction determines a considerable amount of the grammar of a language, and for someone interested in languages the different principles and parameters operating in languages are interesting. Ergative-absolutive languages are interesting because they have provided examples of things which nom.-acc. linguists thought impossible. As for correlating properties of societies with grammatical structure, that is ridiculous. I didn't say anything about that though did I? I think syntax and society are damn near wholly dissasociative, I am interested in the languages because of what they teach us about language simpliciter. Socieities are interesting too, but for distinct reasons. |
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Taiping04
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 188
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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"Lay", ludwig? Yes, I'll wear that, particularly if it excludes me from the class of the pedantic, boring, pretentious, long winded and tunnel-visioned that you clearly belong to.
Todd wrote:
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You are funny. Exotic does just mean "different" and the "difference" is "interesting".
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So he meant exactly what I said. You were wrong.........again.
Do you really make a living as a teacher? I'm not asking if you are one. I pity your students.
Student: Excuse me Mr. S, what word is that?
ludwig: What do you mean by "word", exactly, and exactly how is this question germane, to be exact? |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Taiping04 wrote: |
Student: Excuse me Mr. S, what word is that?
ludwig: What do you mean by "word", exactly[/b] |
 yeaaaahhhh..... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:00 pm Post subject: Wha "is" is |
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Or, even better, perhaps:
"That depends on what the meaning of "is" is."
(With apologies to Bill Clinton)
Regards,
John |
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RVN
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 62
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| You'd think Mr Ludwig, the pedantic know it all that he is, would know that Papua New Guinea is a country not an island. New Guinea, now that is an island. Now that all depends on what exactly one means by "island". |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:16 am Post subject: |
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I am a linguist, and most - if not all of what you write - is naive and undergraduate-like. Then again, you do, I suppose, admit that you have only studied "some linguistics".
| todd wrote: |
| The ergative-absolutive/nom.-acc. distinction is extremely important in language. |
Could you explain how?
| todd wrote: |
| Linguists have found that this fundamental distinction determines a considerable amount of the grammar of a language. |
I am a linguist. Could you cite the "linguists" to whom you refer and the germane publications?
| todd wrote: |
| Ergative-absolutive languages are interesting because they have provided examples of things which nom.-acc. linguists thought impossible. |
Which "linguists" and in which work? |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| RVN wrote: |
| You'd think Mr Ludwig, the pedantic know it all that he is, would know that Papua New Guinea is a country not an island. |
| todd wrote: |
| I'd like to teach in Indonesia or some other island in the area (papua new guinea, [...] |
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RVN
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 62
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Ludwig, does this sound familiar?
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| Papua New Guniea (itself the second largest island in the world, roughly twice the size of Turkey, or around 15% larger than Texas),... |
Forgot to quote that one did you? |
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Taiping04
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 188
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Save your energy RVN. ludwig has a highly selective memory, and is never wrong.
However, his antics in Fuzhou would take some beating.
Edited by Paladin |
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delian
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:54 am Post subject: Jobs in India |
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I was offered a job in Kerala (India) teaching English a year or so ago. I think they would have paid my airfare and given me a few hundred dollars a month to live on - room & board would have been paid for. The job was posted on TESOL's job board, if you're a member. The pay wasn't that high, but would have been ok considering you would be living in Kerala, where everything (to me) is inexpensive and beautiful - I love Kerala.
Anyway, not that I promote them, but what about the Peace Corps if you are American? I know that a lot of people end up teaching when they sign up. You could also probably figure out some NGO to help if you put your mind to it. In my opinion, it would be amazing to help improve the low literacy rates amongst poor, rural women in India (not that this isn't an issue in other countries, of course). That's my fantasy for the distant time in the future when I no longer 'care' about money (i.e. have monetary debts and ambitions)....some time in the future... |
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