Job Discussion Forums

[surrealia]

Just wondering. Is Hsinchu now going to be subject to a SSETT travel warning?

[Aristotle]

I think a travel advisory would be required at the very least. Particularly if the local government and police officials are complicit in their actions or inactions in regard to this violent attack on foreigners in Hsin Chu.
It is important however to consider that this issue is still in the research phase and all the facts are not yet in.
An armed attack by an unidentified organized criminal extortion gang upon 6 foreign residents and teachers in the early morning of May 23, 2004 at an establishment popular with foreign residents in Hsin Chu Taiwan has been confirmed.
Your assistance is required to ensure the future safety of foreigners and teachers on Taiwan.
The Taiwan police have refuse to intervene as this case was perpetrated by local organized criminal gangs.
Please call the Foreign Affairs Police in Hsin Chu and ask them what they are going to do about this case if anything.
This issue may affect us all in the near future. Only if we act together can we insure our future safety on Taiwan.

Foreign Affairs Dept.
National Police Administration
#7, Chung Hsiao E. Road, Sec. 1, Taipei
Tel: 02-23219011 or 02-23217048 Ext. 2225 ~ 2226
Toll Free
0800-018110


Foreign Affairs Police
HSIN-CHU City
#1, Chung Shan 1 Road, Hsin Chu
Tel: 035-242-103

Message from the victims.

"First off, we both would like to thank everyone out there for their support and concern throughout this whole ordeal. It is very comforting to know that the ex-pat community in Hsinchu (Xinzhu) is alive and well and we thank you for all the flowers, gifts, and visits that we received while in the hospital. We have since been released from the hospital and feel that there is just cause for a new post to be added that will set the record straight and correct some of the many errors and crazy ideas that have been added by people that were not even around on the night in question.

We arrived at the Pig and Whistle about 1:00 am on Saturday night and planned to stay for only a short period of time. We were not drunk when we arrived, had one beer downstairs and then took one upstairs to dance for about an hour, and we were not drunk when we left at the end of the night. Everything was going great and it really was one of the best nights that we have had out - we do not even go out very often here in Hsinchu (Xinzhu) and others have even remarked how they never really see us out that frequently. The details are still a little hazy because it seemed to happen so fast and so all of a sudden that we have played and replayed the details attempting to determine where and why this whole situation took place. We believe the problem began when we were on the dance floor and one of the Taiwanese guys started dancing around my girlfriend, her friend (also a female) and myself (all three of us are actually from Canada) and he began bumping into us a little - the dance floor was a little crowded at the time so we did not think much of it. Over the course of the next 30-40 minutes we noticed that he was sort of giving dirty looks to us and the others around us and appeared to be in a generally bad mood. The Taiwanese guy then walked to the bar and grabbed a glass of beer, went to the dance floor, and then attempted to throw the entire glass of beer onto my girlfriend. Now, I was not out to fight and still remained fairly calm at this point as only a small amount of the beer actually hit my girlfriend. We continued to dance at which point the guy walked over to his friends table and began to laugh and point over to us. The same Taiwanese guy then walked up to my girlfriend's back and stood right behind her and appeared to be about to push or hit her from behind. At this point, I walked closer and placed myself between the guy and my girlfriend and attempt to diffuse the situation. The Taiwanese guy immediately became upset and his friends at the table began shouting and jumped over the railing running at us. In an instant, the entire dance floor became a giant blood bath with about 6-8 Taiwanese guys (who we have since heard belong to a gang) smashing glasses, bottles, ashtrays, etc. over our heads and against the walls to use as weapons. I am unsure as to how many times I was hit and cut, but I do know that I was rushed to the emergency room with at least six major cuts on my head (one cut that is approximately 8 inches in length that severed my temporal artery), two on my hands, and one on my arm that all required stitches. The doctor, when asked how many stitches I actually received replied �too many to count!�. At the bar the Taiwanese guys attacked men and women and also cut my girlfriend very severely causing her to receive stitches on her head for four major wounds - one just centimeters above her right eye. She was kicked, punched, cut, and had her hair pulled all by these guys who were totally psychotic and had no regard for life or the long unwritten rule regarding not hitting a lady. During the fight, one of the Taiwanese guys actually ran out of the Pig and Whistle and grabbed a baseball bat (someone heard him say that he was going to get a gun, but fortunately for us that did not happen) and came back into the bar. The guy ran into the room crazily swinging the bat and attempted to hit my girlfriends very tiny (under 5 feet tall) female friend in the head at which point I moved her out of the way and blocked the swing causing me to receive a fractured wrist. He also hit me with the bat and bruised my ribs, and I have since heard that he hit another South African guy in the head causing him to receiving stitches for the wound. The entire fight lasted at least five minutes with us attempting to leave and end the fight on multiple occasions with no success.

We have to thank the people at the bar that intervened on our behalf and helped us in so many ways that we could never fully repay them. Two of the biggest damn South Africans with the biggest damn hearts that I have ever known are at the top of the list and are forever in our �good graces� - if you two were not there that night there is no doubt in our minds that these unbalanced guys would have killed us and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts - you know who you are so there is no need to mention names. There was also at least one other South African guy who jumped in and, as mentioned above, had to receive medical attention for his wounds, a very nice couple from Ireland who were here for a vacation only, and possibly a few others that were lost in the confusion - we thank you all for your help and you will never be forgotten.

As far as the rest of you cowards that were seen idly standing by watching the whole ordeal take place with women being attacked and beaten with glass and fists - I hope that your conscience haunts you and reminds you daily of what you did not do and what you should have been forced, through fear or good morality, to do. I mean, leave chivalry out of the whole situation and just focus on social responsibility and ethics for a minute and you would have more than enough reason to act. We do understand the fact that you should not get involved in every minor dispute that comes along and the fear that can accompany a situation such as this, but not to at least attempt to end the fight and help fellow foreigners who have been so severely injured get away safe??? All I can say is that everyone needs help at one point or another and one day you or your mother or sister are going to be in a jam and how would you feel if you saw others just standing by watching and hiding behind the curtain of �this does not concern me� or �I should not get involved, I did not see who started it�?

Some posts have been asking the question as to whether or not we plan to press charges and we are taking this under careful consideration. If this were Canada, then there would be no question whatsoever and the charges would have been laid that night. But this being Taiwan and the justice system here being what it is makes it a very tough call with doubt being cast at to whether or not they would even be charged, have to pay the fine/go to jail, retaliation, etc. We do fully understand our sense of social responsibility and want to do our best to see that justice has been served and prevent things of this nature happening again, but we are also concerned for our safety and would very much like to enjoy the rest of our stay here in Taiwan.

As for the Pig and Whistle, we (and many others) believe that they have seriously failed to fulfill legal and ethical responsibilities and we will most likely be contacting legal representation in the very near future. They too failed to attempt to diffuse the situation and end the fight, they allowed one man to leave the bar and get a bat to re-enter and continue the fight, the police were not called, or at least did not arrive, until the fight was well over and we had left, and only after numerous requests to do so was the ambulance called to assist with significant medical concerns. No attempt was made to offer first aid care by the staff and only one employee was seen handing us tissue to place over our cuts -one being a severed artery. The Pig and Whistle offers no form of protection (security/bouncers) and are themselves too afraid to even become involved when problems arise."

[WorkingVaca]

What organization has confirmed these reports? Aristotle's paranoia cyber club, headquartered on his free Yahoo Geocities website. And how? By lifting comments from a message board called www.forumosa.com. Here is the thread, including the "message from the victims" posted by Aristotle above. It's about 15 pages long and growing:

http://forumosa.com/3/viewtopic.php?t=17980&start=195&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Aristotle, all you have to do to lend yourself the smallest shred of credibility, is quote your sources. Your info is from a message board for Taiwan expats, nowhere else. The thread also mentions that the bar had cameras that caught the whole thing on tape. Whether that's really true is anybody's guess. But if anybody cared THAT MUCH about some random bar fight, they could hang out at the club themselves and ask. You really don't get out much, do you Aristotle, to be preparing another TRAVEL ADVISORY WARNING based on a bar fight.

[Aristotle]

I think you are missing the point. It's not the bar fight but the local police attitude of "here no evil, see no evil..."
There are several numbers listed why don't you pick up your hand held and make the call?
It really is that simple. The fact is that a few years ago these types of incidents were handled much better and professionally than they are now. Additionally these types of incidents are becoming more frequent and violent.
It is easy enough to sit at your keyboard and criticize others for making a difference.
Why not go a step further and get involved while you can still make a difference? It's only a telephone, it won't bite you.
Good luck,
A.

[Fortigurn]

[EOD]

A method for ensuring your safety that I picked up from my days in the military. Stay out of the line of fire and if possible stay off the battlefield all together. In Taiwan that means stay out of bars and night clubs during the wee hours of the morning.
In most developed countries they have laws that force these types of establishments to close shortly after midnight or at least stop selling alcohol. This method has proved very effective and has been adopted in some form or another by nearly every state in the union as well as many provinces of Canada.
Here in Taiwan where social development has been retarded it is more of a buyer beware situation. We have to make these kinds of decisions ourselves and when we make the wrong decision the consequences can be severe.
It is obvious from reading the post from some of the people involved that they were unaware of the possible dangers. Perhaps we here could do something about that in the near future. Obviously some have already tried.
The Pig and Whistle is going to take whatever position will ensure their future profits. I think they have straddled the fence quite well even if that position is untenable. I seem to recall similar incident at the (now defunct) Taichung (Taizhong) Pig and Whistle right before they closed shop.
As for the police not being able to do anything because no wants to press charges that is absolute BS. Two years ago the laws in Taiwan were amended to try to curb domestic violence. The police and prosecutors now have the ability and obligation to press charges in cases like this if there is ample evidence of wrong doing. Even without the victims consent.
I believe a video tape can be a more compelling piece of evidence than witness statements.
If the Pig and Whistle is withholding that evidence then they should be held accountable. As a long time patron of the Pig and Whistle, I fully support a boycott of all of their shops. Can anyone recommend another more secure establishment?
The alleged victims in this incident were very fortunate they were in a large group or there might have been a benefit for their families next year.

[ssmas5]

You forieners think your so hot and better than the Taiwanese. You deserve what you get. I am a foreiner too, but I hate 99.9% of other foreiners because you all think your better than everyone else.
.Even at NT$40k, your making double of most Taiwanese. I'ld really like to find out who this so called gang was.

Edited by Paladin

[wombat]

[ssmas5]

We're only getting one side of this story.

[wombat]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]