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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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 Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: the final solution |
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| revilo wrote: |
If I might add: you have a great resume and experience to get hired at a good job overseas. Why not stay overseas? Default on your student loan. Move all your bank accounts to overseas banks. Tell Uncle Sam to naff off.
The U.S. is gonna go bankrupt sooner or later. They will make a grab for your $$. Why not move all your $$ out of Uncle Sam's reach? |
I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek, but the sentiment sure is popular. Defaulting on a loan has far-reaching effects to those who return to the U.S.. But no, the U.S. still has the most massive economy and is nowhere near collapse. The recession is worldwide.
And tangal, it's nice to know that we're all equals here. Thanks for telling me.
But back to our regular program.
OP: if you hate micromanagement of the U.S. public schools, many Chinese universities will give you more space. In fact, some universities will give you so much leeway that you'll be astonished. Though you may not get kudos to your face, the Chinese teachers hear about the FTs from the students, and you'll get positive comments from the Chinese teachers if they don't completely shy away from you. With your background and experience, I think you can walk into any situation and do well, barring any personal clashes with maniacal or unrealistic managers/department deans/FAO's.
Good luck. |
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timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:14 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to my questions - including the occasional mud-slinging!  I appreciate all the suggestions about my career direction although I think defaulting on the loan may not be a good idea. A few of you took the time to pm me directly or respond to my pm's. Much appreciated! |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:39 am Post subject: |
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The salary differential between a typical uni and an international school for a Western-certificated teacher is around 3x.
That's the killer app - unless you're debt free and the OP doesn't seem to be. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
The salary differential between a typical uni and an international school for a Western-certificated teacher is around 3x.
That's the killer app - unless you're debt free and the OP doesn't seem to be. |
What about the workload? The pay is certainly much greater but I believe the workload is also.
I don't want to derail this thread at all, it's a pretty decent one.
However, from what I have seen (not all that much, to be honest) the salaries at Int'l schools, though high, do not adequately compensate for the workload/hours required. A Uni gig and privates/part-time work can often offer a comparable income for fewer hours. |
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tangal
Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 47
Location: Da Nang Beach
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| However, from what I have seen (not all that much, to be honest) the salaries at Int'l schools, though high, do not adequately compensate for the workload/hours required. A Uni gig and privates/part-time work can often offer a comparable income for fewer hours. |
I've done both, but the best job I've ever had is the job I have now, a joint-venture university with pay and bennies about as good as it gets, yes with office hours (somewhat relaxed) and always something to do workwise, but the hours are better for me now that I'm in my mid-50s, Monday to Friday 9-5 for 18 teaching hours (plus possible cover once a week to bring it up to 20).
My take-home pay doing a regular uni gig plus doing outside teaching jobs on weekday evenings and weekends usually topped out in the 12K range (6+6), which is about one 6K payday less than I'm making now, and it took a lot more time and energy not to mention having to work every weekend.
The OP has a choice, and one job with higher pay and better bennies, plus the added benefit of a solid program (maybe) are his best option IMO. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| tangal wrote: |
Monday to Friday 9-5 for 18 teaching hours (plus possible cover once a week to bring it up to 20).
My take-home pay doing a regular uni gig plus doing outside teaching jobs on weekday evenings and weekends usually topped out in the 12K range (6+6), which is about one 6K payday less than I'm making now, and it took a lot more time and energy not to mention having to work every weekend.
The OP has a choice, and one job with higher pay and better bennies, plus the added benefit of a solid program (maybe) are his best option IMO. |
You may very well be correct.
Yes it's more difficult to manage multiple jobs and multiple locations.
There is a certain level of flexibility working a full time gig + side gigs which I particularly enjoy but the OP may find that less appealing. A 9-5 is exactly what I wanted to avoid and have successfully done so without sacrificing income. There are sacrifices I make elsewhere but for me they are worth it. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| muffintop wrote: |
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
The salary differential between a typical uni and an international school for a Western-certificated teacher is around 3x.
That's the killer app - unless you're debt free and the OP doesn't seem to be. |
What about the workload? The pay is certainly much greater but I believe the workload is also.
I don't want to derail this thread at all, it's a pretty decent one.
However, from what I have seen (not all that much, to be honest) the salaries at Int'l schools, though high, do not adequately compensate for the workload/hours required. A Uni gig and privates/part-time work can often offer a comparable income for fewer hours. |
Good point.
OP may find that a China international is NOT sufficiently different from US to give him the break he wants/needs.
As I've said elsewhere, the job that gets you to China may not be the job that keeps you here. |
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ecubyrd
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Working at an international school gives you a plethora of time off during the course of a year if idle time is a concern. Sure the workday itself is a lot like a public school back home, but that is expected. With that comes a high salary, good benefits, and choice of housing generally.
I prefer this type of work, but then again I might change my tune as I get older. |
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buffalobill12323
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 115
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| tangal wrote: |
| Quote: |
| However, from what I have seen (not all that much, to be honest) the salaries at Int'l schools, though high, do not adequately compensate for the workload/hours required. A Uni gig and privates/part-time work can often offer a comparable income for fewer hours. |
I've done both, but the best job I've ever had is the job I have now, a joint-venture university with pay and bennies about as good as it gets, yes with office hours (somewhat relaxed) and always something to do workwise, but the hours are better for me now that I'm in my mid-50s, Monday to Friday 9-5 for 18 teaching hours (plus possible cover once a week to bring it up to 20).
My take-home pay doing a regular uni gig plus doing outside teaching jobs on weekday evenings and weekends usually topped out in the 12K range (6+6), which is about one 6K payday less than I'm making now, and it took a lot more time and energy not to mention having to work every weekend.
The OP has a choice, and one job with higher pay and better bennies, plus the added benefit of a solid program (maybe) are his best option IMO. |
You think 18K is as good as it gets??? May want to raise the bar a little there. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| buffalobill12323 wrote: |
| You think 18K is as good as it gets??? May want to raise the bar a little there. |
Oh!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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22Yossarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2013
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| jimpellow wrote: |
If you want to stay out of the true international private schools like Maple Leaf, then I think a position teaching English/IELTS to rich spoiled high school students (most of whom who will flunk out or be expelled once overseas) in one of the quasi international prep programs is the best way to go. Lots of time off like the universities but pay is much better. Usually at least some token Western management to ensure a modicum of quality control and sanity. The pay is particularly good if you can teach subjects like the sciences and economics.
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I have to agree with this. I teach American studies in a program like this, the money is pretty good (I could live okay in the Midwest, excluding Chicago, with this money). The vacation is great, I get 9 paid weeks of vacation a year (2 for Spring festival, 1 for fall, and 6 weeks at my convenience in the summer). I also have 2 weeks of sick pay. The hours are good, I have 17 hours of class this term, and I may have less next term. I am paid on salary so I take no reduction in pay if the classes are reduced. My boss is western. They also pay my housing. I send $900 back to America for student loans each month, and live quite well (eat out a few times a week, go to the bar most weekends) on what I have left, and still have a fair amount left over in each pay check, and I live in Beijing.
It is far from perfect (my bosses look at this as more of a business than a school and at the students as customers more than students). I do find myself wanting to pull my hair out over some things, but I doubt there is a perfect job out there. This beats the hell out of the history adjuncting I did in America.
Edit: You seem like you would be well qualified to teach "English for Academic Purposes" in a program like mine. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Everybody has different limits and dislikes..
For me...teaching those spoiled rich kids who did poorly on the gaokao ranks pretty damn high on the list of things I'd rather not do. I've done it before and it's always a nightmare. These kids didn't study in High School and can barely utter a single sentence in English....we're supposed to perform a miracle and get them ready for University in an English speaking country and get them to pass the IELTS.
I just refused an AP American History class that paid quite well because it's just more of the same. I met the students and their level was extremely low. Not a chance in hell they could understand the coursework. Far, far beyond their abilities. When I asked the school about it they told me....to dumb it down to their level and use a lot of pictures. Not possible.
I'll take a kick in the balls every morning and twice at dinner before I do a class like that again. |
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Guerciotti
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 842
Location: In a sleazy bar killing all the bad guys.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| muffintop wrote: |
Everybody has different limits and dislikes..
For me...teaching those spoiled rich kids who did poorly on the gaokao ranks pretty damn high on the list of things I'd rather not do. I've done it before and it's always a nightmare. These kids didn't study in High School and can barely utter a single sentence in English....we're supposed to perform a miracle and get them ready for University in an English speaking country and get them to pass the IELTS.
I just refused an AP American History class that paid quite well because it's just more of the same. I met the students and their level was extremely low. Not a chance in hell they could understand the coursework. Far, far beyond their abilities. When I asked the school about it they told me....to dumb it down to their level and use a lot of pictures. Not possible.
I'll take a kick in the balls every morning and twice at dinner before I do a class like that again. |
True, the joint venture programs can be intolerable, I did that last school year. Now I make good hay at a high school's 'international' program. They require our presence for 40 hours a week, but pay well.
Anyway, 'to each his own' seems appropos here. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| we're supposed to perform a miracle and get them ready for University in an English speaking country and get them to pass the IELTS. |
This has never been a clause in my contracts. |
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22Yossarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2013
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| muffintop wrote: |
Everybody has different limits and dislikes..
For me...teaching those spoiled rich kids who did poorly on the gaokao ranks pretty damn high on the list of things I'd rather not do. I've done it before and it's always a nightmare. These kids didn't study in High School and can barely utter a single sentence in English....we're supposed to perform a miracle and get them ready for University in an English speaking country and get them to pass the IELTS.
I just refused an AP American History class that paid quite well because it's just more of the same. I met the students and their level was extremely low. Not a chance in hell they could understand the coursework. Far, far beyond their abilities. When I asked the school about it they told me....to dumb it down to their level and use a lot of pictures. Not possible.
I'll take a kick in the balls every morning and twice at dinner before I do a class like that again. |
The miracles part does get a bit old. I do get the sense that the onus of my weak students success is placed on me rather than the students. But, the money is good and the other benefits are great, and I rarely take work home (I have 20 hours in the office to plan/grade each week).
But, I also have some really good students who I love to work with. |
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