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luceluceluce
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:22 pm Post subject: Kai En - Shanghai |
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does anybody have any experience/knowledge (good or bad) of this school? I'm due to start there in 3 weeks and would appreciate any information about them.
thanks in advance
luce x |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Go to the Job Information forum, and scroll down until you reach last year. There have been a number of opinions, not all mutually-corroborating! |
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luceluceluce
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I did as you said but I could only find one posting, which was the opposite of helpful and said:
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| Please discontinue writing me for info. on KaiEn school in Shanghai. |
Also, it doesn't say which posts are from last year, or which schools they're talking about, all I saw was a list of 'subjects'.
Can you be more specific  |
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wOZfromOZ
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 272
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Mate
They're a private college.
The owner wields considerable influence with the Gov. here I believe.
I tried to get a job there back in '98. Apparently they dont value qualifications, experience, knowledge of the Chinese Education landscape,
applicants with significant connections here already, honesty or integrity.
just a personal view hey ....I've got nothing against Kai En .......nice location in a good area of Shanghai.
wOZfromOZ |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I have to own up to having erred! I confused YANG EN with KAI EN. There are numerous posts on Yang En University, but none on Kai En.
I would trust WOz from Oz' comment though! |
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Minhang Oz
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 610
Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:35 pm Post subject: a link |
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| This may help.Contact Martin Wolff who is in Shanghai,and has written a 10,000 word chapter for publication soon on the EFL industry in China.In this he details complaints from sites like this one about various schools.His conclusions support the theory held by many that government schools are mostly OK,private are mostly not.He didn't publish names.clearly for legal reasons,but quite likely still has the raw data.A copy of his chapter is essential reading for all of us. His email is [email protected] |
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luceluceluce
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:39 pm Post subject: thanks |
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many thanks for help and advice
x |
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SallyMander
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 6
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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An extremely unprofessional organization which does not respect students or teachers. If you are truly interested in gaining professional teaching experience this is certainly not the place to do it. Their home grown "teaching methodology" is nothing more than glorified entertainment and students have ultimate power over the teachers through the customer service feedback system. I have NEVER known anyone to be happy with the school.
Additionally, they were successfully sued last year by a former teacher for not respcting the contract. They also fired a number of teachers and managers last year because the school was having financial problems. Others quit to escape it. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! |
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luceluceluce
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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HI
What you say re. suing Kai En worries me a lot. I work for a major language school chain in England and it was the Managing Director of this chain who put me in touch with Kai En.
I would hate to think that my current employer is recommending that i work for a highly dubious organisation while i'm on sabbatical. 
do you have more specific information - how did you hear about this?
You help greatly appreciated
luce x |
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SallyMander
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 6
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Luce,
I worked for Kai En for quite some time and would be curious to know just your managing director's relationship with the school. If you would like to email me with any questions, please feel free to do so. I will not post the specifics on this board because I do not want to deal with any nasty reprecussions.
[email protected] |
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flyboy
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 9:00 am Post subject: re: unfounded rumors and misinformation |
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 I am sad to see that so many pieces of misinformation and a number rumors have been put forth here. I worked for Kai En for 2 years and then moved on to a more promising career for me.
Kai En like all schools has its faults.
Kai En like all schools makes mistakes.
However, much of the crud I see here is blatently wrong. Kai En is not all powerful and connected in "the loop". They have spent a great deal of time networking and building their "relationships" necessary to make their name known. This is nothing but sound marketing effort made in the attempt to attract customers. I applaud them for being intelligent and shrewd in a competative market. I also want to dispell the rumors of land and local girls. Ken and Brian are not buying all the free land up in Ireland and neither of them is married to a local Shanghai girl. Whoever wrote this is just plain silly.
On the topic of released teachers. Kai En is about the most professional group of businessmen/educators I know. They have made a very big effort in recruiting quality people and providing them with support to get the job done. Brian and Ken are commited to the students even at the expense of their wallets. They are two guys running a school that wants students to reach their results. This is a rare thing to find in this big city.
Finally, I want to be fair. Some of the people who have posted things here have been very negative. Maybe they felt like they were treated unfairly. I can assure you than for ever negative comment they have made, that a positive one will come form another former teacher. I can also guarentee that much of their negativity comes from wanting to settle a personal vendetta.
Remember to do your own homework on a school you choose to work for. Stand up for yourself, but make sure you are doing your job. If this is the case you will have nothing to worry about.  |
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Wolf
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 1245
Location: Middle Earth
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: re: unfounded rumors and misinformation |
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| flyboy wrote: |
I am sad to see that so many pieces of misinformation and a number rumors have been put forth here. I worked for Kai En for 2 years and then moved on to a more promising career for me.
Kai En like all schools has its faults.
Kai En like all schools makes mistakes.
On the topic of released teachers. Kai En is about the most professional group of businessmen/educators I know. They have made a very big effort in recruiting quality people and providing them with support to get the job done. Brian and Ken are commited to the students even at the expense of their wallets. They are two guys running a school that wants students to reach their results. This is a rare thing to find in this big city.
Finally, I want to be fair. Some of the people who have posted things here have been very negative. Maybe they felt like they were treated unfairly. I can assure you than for ever negative comment they have made, that a positive one will come form another former teacher. I can also guarentee that much of their negativity comes from wanting to settle a personal vendetta.
Remember to do your own homework on a school you choose to work for. Stand up for yourself, but make sure you are doing your job. If this is the case you will have nothing to worry about. |
Shanghai for me might as well be on Pluto for all I know, and En Kai could be run by the incarnation of Mother Theresa and the 17th Dali Lama for all I might know. But, um, flyboy? Um, you're, well, suspicious.
Post #1 and the first words out of your mouth are to belittle teachers who may have had legit gripes. Sure, there are some boinks out there that think that a silver platter isn't good enough for them to get the world handed to them on, no it has to be diamond encrusted plantinum. But I'd say the majority of gripes that get posted here have their basis in fact. I have worked for "big, respectable" companies that treated me like dirt. People don't just wake up one day and think, "Hmm. What can I do today? Oh, yes, I'll start a personal vendetta against my boss." So 50% of the teachers have good stories. The other half have personal vendettas. Most of those would need MOTIVE. Now, where does the motive come from? They regularly send guys to this site to well, say what you just said. Verbatum. Umm. This is for EFL teachers. And the odd student that pops up, whatever, it's cool. But, um, Mr. Evil Manager - type?  Could you please go be evil back in Shanghai, which is very far from me? 
If managers come here, at least read the other posts you and your parrots have made in the past and say something origional.
Sorry, I guess I just got interested that managers of schools would read this stuff. Sigh, if you don't want the nasty stuff that gets posted to reach an "official" level of 50%, then how about introducing wild revolutionary reforms like:
Paying us on time.
Stop blaming us for stuff we don't do.
Give us what you promise in a written contract.
Not artificially inflate the dress code. (What's up with that? I know a woman who got in trouble wearing an outfit she used to wear on the FTSE, or London stock exhange. While working for some langauge school.)
Make the connection that skin colour is NOT RELATED to teaching ability. Geez. People only believe that stuff because of a media bliz caused, primarily, by YOU.
Don't threaten us with violence, or take away our passports, or rob us, or lie to us. This will get posted on the net.
Do not AIM FOR a 100% turnover every year. How many Fortune 500 companies ADMIT to having such a policy, they way more than one of my previous employers has?
Treat your local staff nice. Do not purposely treat them like crap, then pay them considerably less than us in an effort to create animosity so that we do not communicate (okay, in China the pay thing might be a bit difficult to redress. But still.) Hello? They have information we need, and we have information they need. Do you have ANY IDEA how disruptive animostiy in the workplace is? How much MONEY it is costing YOU in lost man - hour time?
This above all else, to thine own clients be true. Don't lie to them. Don't give them unrealistic hopes. Don't tell them that your teachers are all EFL rocket scientists if they're not. Don't sell them 600 lesson tickets on a 3 year free booking contract system, knowing dam well that they couldn't possibly use them all (that's like one lesson every other day constantly for 3 years - who's going to do that?) That's taking money from some one - a lot of money hand over fist - and giving them NOTHING. You can run a sucessful, MONEY MAKING EFL school by actually selling LESSONS instead of NOTHING. Especially in China.
Okay, how much of this applies to flyboy? Who cares. It kind of turned into a post for your average Mr/Ms E. Manager who might be out there reading.
To misquote one of my favorite authors:
Do I oversimplify the matter? Very well, I oversimplify the matter. I'm an a$$, it's not like I contain multitudes or anything.
PS Flyboy if you're who you say you are and not who I think you are, then don't take it personally.  Read the NOVA arguments on the archive in the Japan thread and you'll understand.
Last edited by Wolf on Fri May 23, 2003 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pratyeka
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 18
Location: Sydney, Australia.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Haha, this place is classic! |
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Seth
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: in exile
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Indeed. It's tough to pull one on a seasoned FT in China, as we've seen every dirty trick in the book. I've often asserted that former FT's from China should become corporate lawyers, as we would know every underhanded move out there. |
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Ajarn Miguk
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 227
Location: TDY As Assigned
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 4:19 am Post subject: Personal Experience? |
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| Just curious, but is this from personal experience teaching in Korea and Japan? If so, what makes it that more difficult in China than say, Korea? |
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