Job Discussion Forums

[fluffyhamster]

Move along, move along, nothing to see here except two Eddie Hitlers asking "What is gas?".

[Sashadroogie]

Ha ha ha! Funny!!!

[mmcmorrow]

I've been a Celta trainer on and off for twenty years in various countries and contexts. Some aspects of Celta which I don't believe are outdated would include:

Its practical, hands-on focus, with teaching practice and observations interwoven with input sessions on language, learning and teaching issues. It's the interaction of these elements which is the key. There's little point in extensive pre-course reading (in my view) since it doesn't really become meaningful for the teachers until they realise the need for this knowledge through the experience of the classroom.

Its close relationship to the classroom teaching context (generally in a large language school or institute)

Its practitioner-trainers (i.e. people with extensive and generally ongoing language teaching experience)

its flexibility - in my city, for instance, it's available as a four or five week intensive course in a language school; as a semi-intensive part-time course over three months in a university language centre; or as a module embedded within a four-month polytechnic certificate in language teaching (with a greater focus on literacy etc). That's not the case in every city, of course, but overall, there is quite a diversity in course designs (including a blended course, incorporating online instruction)

its standardisation procedures (all courses are visited by an external moderator - i.e. an experienced Celta trainer from another centre. These assessors take part in a global standardisation procedure themselves every year. During their assessment visit, they spend a day at the centre, checking through documents and observing a sample of teaching and assessment and discussing tutors' grading of all the candidates at that point in the course - and again at the end of the course. They write a report to Cambridge, including all of their notes, and that is referred to at a meeting, in which the grades recommended by the tutors are confirmed by Cambridge (or not, as occasionally happens). The fact that this is done by trainers (and not by some Ofsted inspectors, for instance) means it is not only a way of standardising grading, but also a means of professional development and sharing of expertise / concerns etc among trainers and centres. If mainstream schools followed a similar approach, I think it would have a very positive effect on how teachers perceive assessment of performance).

That's not to say Celta is the be-all-and-end-all of training. It's intended to be an introduction, giving teachers basic knowledge and skills and strategies to work satisfactorily in the classroom while building up their knowledge and personal style over however long they choose to stay in the profession. Content of courses varies a bit from centre to centre and is as affected by conservatism as our profession in general. Even if you'd like to change the content of courses, you have to bear in mind that the teachers you are training have to be able to work within the profession as it is - not as we'd like it to be: like politics, teacher training is the art of the possible.

Anyway, teachers who would prefer a more through grounding in language and learning theory should be able to find alternative one, two, three or four year programmes. Similarly, those who would prefer more of a reflective, self-assessment based course will find a number of university level diplomas to their liking. Each to his / her own.

Martin McMorrow, Auckland, New Zealand

[Sashadroogie]

Thank you Martin for that post. Insightful, well-written, and, most importantly, it accords with my point of view : )

Bravo!

[fluffyhamster]

[Sashadroogie]

And you know this, any of this, how exactly, Fluffy?

[fluffyhamster]

Through personal experience, and from various comments on these forums. So no, no skin-melting commandments from the Ark of the Covenant IME.

[Sashadroogie]

Personal experience? So, you have received or given Celta lesson observation feedback since your CTEFLA days, and can compare it to the quality of feedback offered in-house free in many jobs?

As for various comments on this forum re the Celta, they range from the ignorant bickering of the clueless to the majesty of a post such as Martin's which is fully supported by real experience. Which comments helped you to form the conclusion that the quality of observation feedback offered for free in many jobs is about the same as on a Celta course?

[spiral78]

[fluffyhamster]

I really noticed little difference in feedback generally. There may be some points that certs compulsively seek, such as concept checking, but at least real job feedback cannot but be more cognizant if not sympathetic to whatever situational realities, and if anything has more time to spare.

Martin's post details essentially the structure of the organization. It sure sounds supremely functional, but then so must the US or British goverments to impressionable tourists and the like. The realities on the ground however may be very different, and there is not one post, not one (borrowing your phrasing, Sash) from CELTA diehards and blowhards that admits to any real inadequacy or shows any evidence of genuine reflection and improvement. Then, his plea that "we can only deal with the profession as it is, not how we'd like it to be" rings hollow to me - er, the profession such as it is is largely a product of or follows on from the initial training, so surely that's the place to start if you'd genuinely like to effect improvements. And I for one couldn't care less about in-service assessment (or who really does it) when the yardstick remains pretty much the same as in ITT.

Anyway, if we're going to spin yarns of legendary prowess, can the heroes at least be a bit more believable in having some recognizable flaw or weakness? Apart of course from then peddling the "We're only human" mea culpa ("No, you wanted to be taken as the authority in these matters, so man up or pack up!". Yes, I was teenage trainee werehamster, aka Even Untrained I Had Better Grammar Instincts and Sought More Up-to-date Thinking than a Tired Grizzled Head Trainer Hadn't. And yes, I'll keep bringing this up until so-called betters deign to address it. I've been more than up-front about things Spiral, but all you ever seem to reply is "ELT, well I, don't do no grammer, no siree!", as if any perceptive or questioning individual's account is mere noise or misinformation, and as if skill or the lack of it at contextualizing language is of little concern).

Talking of tired old, I noticed that the latest edition of Riddell's Teach Yourself TEFL has the very same overly involved context-long example for teaching the meaning of 'should' (you know, the one with the very scruffy down and out friend with buboes, threadbare rags, unkempt hair etc etc etc who's going for a job interview - SHOULD WEAR A SUIT!!!) that I'd met on my CTEFLA, so it has to have been doing the rounds for many decades now in TT. I think that's unacceptably lazy and stifling, but what do I know eh! Riddell could just be a rogue agent now, on the run from a new, improved Treadmill corporation.

[Sashadroogie]

No, no. This offering is completely lacking in the qualities thar makes Martin's one such an excellent read. Sorry, but it isn't his post that rings hollow. It doesn't sound like dead horse flogging either.

But the bit about the 'you should wear a suit' is amusing, and quite relevant to being out-dated. Couldn't agree more! Suits, so bourgeois! We should all wear army tunics, that's what I say...

[fluffyhamster]

What transparent avoidance. I'd hate to be a trainee in you guys' classes.

[mmcmorrow]

[quote="fluffyhamster"]

[Sashadroogie]

[johnslat]

Dear mmcmorrow,

A very well-reasoned post, I'd say.The problem is that I don't think logic is going to work here - too much emotion involved.

Regards,
John