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[Laura C]

[quote="kev7161"]There are some deadly drugs floating around out there Laura C.
And I didn't say there wasn't. I said that gtidey only mentioned what s/he called 'a bit of reefer'. His/her post didn't say anything about kids 'shooting up in the john' or whatever -- and to me your post implied that s/he was condoning kids using hard drugs. Your post referred to heroin and crack when actually the debate was about marijuana -- that clouded the issue imho.

And no, actually I don't smoke pot. Just because I don't think that teenagers should be kicked out of school for having a joint doesn't mean I smoke myself or encourage kids to do so.

"There are more important things to worry about than a 15 year old haivng a spliff"

Really? Like what?

Er, war, poverty, violence...
In my home town there is a problem with teenagers getting drunk and beating people up. I'd much rather meet a gang of 16 year olds who had been smoking pot than drinking.

L

[kev7161]

Wow! I went back to re-read my posts on this topic (something I feel strongly about, if you couldn't tell) as I thought maybe I misspoke (miswrote?), but I don't find it.

Hmmmm, I didn't say that marijuana use leads to other drugs. I did say it "could" lead to other drugs (the kids try one kind, like the high and don't notice any adverse side affects, so maybe they try something else) - - - this is my opinion based on news reports I've read and/or seen on television. I've never smoked pot, so I certainly can't speak from personal knowledge.

I didn't say the OP was condoning heavier drugs amongst our youth - I don't think I even implied that. I did imply that about you (Laura C.) as your response read as more encouraging to kids, so thanks for clearing up your feelings on this matter for us I said that schools are screening for all sorts of drugs and alcohol in school. Certainly marijuana is one of their concerns, but the heavier and more fatal kinds of drugs are probably a bit of concern for our schools as well.

War and poverty are certainly a concern for our world and they are important. I wish both could be eradicated. However, there's always hope that our current school-aged generation can grow to be smart, sensible adults and find ways to alleviate (if not wipe out altogether) these problems. Getting kicked out of school or being a stoner throughout school will NOT help. As for violence? Yes, violence is a HUGE concern (as I've mentioned repeatedly). There will still be violence in the schools regardless if drugs are involved or not, but continuous and immature drug use will only exacerbate the problem - - - certainly not help it! Let the kids get through high school safely - - then they can worry about the bigger things. And by the way, I equate getting drunk to be just as serious (if not moreso) as using drugs. Let's face it, BOTH are dangerous and we shouldn't condone or encourage either -- - - - INCLUDING pot smoking (just to be safe).

Finally, in the US, smoking pot, underage drinking, heavy drugs are all illegal. Yes, that's right . . . ILLEGAL. If we turn our heads to "having a bit of reefer after school" then what right do we as teachers and parents have to punishing them for other things? Schools are fighting a losing battle as it is. Many kids (teens) don't know self-control and are dealing with raging hormones. Do you really think they are responsible enough to get high and nothing negative will come out of it? (that is a rhetorical question by the way)

[Laura C]

[quote="kev7161"]Wow! I went back to re-read my posts on this topic (something I feel strongly about, if you couldn't tell) as I thought maybe I misspoke (miswrote?), but I don't find it.

Hmmmm, I didn't say that marijuana use leads to other drugs.

OK, Kev. At the risk of flogging a dead horse...

I know you didn't accuse the poster of condoning drugs, or that marijuana leads to other drugs. What I said was (I've just reread in case I miswrote) that, when someone is talking specifically about pot use, I think it can sound a bit hysterical to start talking about kids doing smack in the school toilets. I'm not referring to you or your post specifically, just the type of argument that seems to link a kid having a joint to a heroin addict. I think if someone is against teenagers taking drugs, there are better ways to put it, certainly ways that would appeal to teenagers more (I worked with 'high risk' teenagers for 3 years so have some knowledge in the area). I really think it alienates teenagers to lump occasional pot use together with addiction to heroin and crack. Again, this isn't a reference specifically to your posts.

Getting kicked out of school or being a stoner throughout school will NOT help.
And that is my point -- kids shouldn't be kicked out of school. It's not condoning drug use to say that kicking a kid out of school for smoking pot is a bit extreme.

And again, no-one is saying anything about kids being 'stoners' all through school. Regardless of whether pot is 'good' or 'bad' and whether teenagers should or shouldn't smoke it, it's distortion to say someone is a 'stoner' when maybe they smoke one joint a month. (And yes, I know I'm being pedantic here, but I do think words are powerful and should be chosen carefully.)

I think we have interpreted a 'bit of reefer' differently -- to me it could mean a kid occasionally having a joint after school; to you it seems to indicate a serious problem. No big deal -- it's a matter of interpretation.

I'm quite enjoying flogging this dead horse though -- look forward to your next post.

L

[kev7161]

"Getting kicked out of school or being a stoner throughout school will NOT help.
And that is my point -- kids shouldn't be kicked out of school. It's not condoning drug use to say that kicking a kid out of school for smoking pot is a bit extreme. "

Actually, I worded that a bit wrong. I am all for kicking kids out of school for drug use (not for their entire scholastic career, but as a punishment for "X" amount of time - - during that time away from school they should be required to go through a drug treatment/counseling program . . . in my opinion). I should have said something like: using drugs and getting kicked out of school will do nothing for their future or the world's future, so maybe they should resist the temptation of doing drugs.

Easier said than done, I know. And that's all I have to say about this topic (well, maybe not!)

[rj]

Are you talking about kids getting suspended versus expelled kev?

[kev7161]

Whichever one is the harshest punishment in my book (but suspension is probably the wisest course). Of course, maybe they WANT to get expelled so this could be their ticket out of there. That is why I suggest they go to drug counseling, maybe they could have some sort of education while going through the treatment. Who's going to pay for this? Well, our taxes pay for public schools, maybe some can be diverted to these programs.

[Laura C]

What level of drug use do you think warrants having to go for counselling, Kev? Someone who is turning up to school constantly stoned: yes (and I don't mean the teachers ) -- someone who has a spliff at the weekend, no.

I agree with earlier posts that some teenagers (and adults) don't know where to draw the line with drugs or drink. But some do. Not everyone who takes drugs has a problem worthy of counselling.

L

[Will.]

Hands up!


Who needs a coffee to start functioning in the morning?

What is the limit of your tolerance when you have not had a morning coffee? Are you a happy bunny?
Do you arrive at school constantly 'wired' or are you a weekend coffeedrinker?
I worked at a school that had fresh-brewed coffee continually and freely available. the teachers were wired constantly and out at night getting drunk till the wee hours to get rid of the effects. they thought it was weak beer not strong coffee.
Where do we draw the line?
It is all a question of tolerance.

[kev7161]

I'm only speaking for the USA: Coffee/caffeine is not illegal. Marijuana, under-age drinking, and hard drugs are. If coffee is ever made illegal, then we will have to draw the line somewhere else. I don't drink coffee (gives me a bit of diarreha!), but I will admit an addiction to chocolate (especially Reese's Peanut Butter Cups).

[Gringo Greg]

Hey, I think someone's private life shouldn't be an issue as long as it stays private. There is a new teacher at my school who proudly proclaims on his website that he is a former heroin addict. I personally don't want to be associated with a current or former heroin users why? They should keep that to themselves......why bother me with it. It is great and all, but in a lot of countries drug addiction in the past is viewed just as badly as drug addiction in the present.

[kait]

A physician I work with has said that if caffeine, niccotine and alcohol were new substances, the FDA would never approve them. Niccotine is actually more addictive than heroin, according to this doctor.

By the way, the argument that marijuana is not addictive has proven to be false. It's just that the half-life of marijuana is approximately 30 days, so people don't experience withdrawl until long after they smoked. They don't generally associate their withdrawl symptoms to marijuana at that point.

I think that drug use is a serious problem in the US and elsewhere. I think, however, that we have to be cautious about removing kids from schools because of it. The kids who have serious drug problems are more likely to get discouraged and drop out as a result. And those who are punished who don't actually have a serious problem may start to see themselves as "problems." We need to keep kids in school if at all possible.

[Will.]

hey how come there is no tax on coffee and tea/ Did the Bostonians have such an effect/

[Bindair Dundat]

[leeroy]

Right opposite my front door, a known-crack house was shut down not but one week ago (This is the luxury of life that English teachers expect in London! Ever been to Brixton?). Every day I step over/walk past/am mugged by drug addicts/dealers - I feel confident in saying that class 'A' drugs are not as "cool" as they once seemed to me. There's nothing cool about crack and heroin - it makes people smelly, ugly and unreliable.

This is where I turn round and say "But weed - that's, like, totally different man!" Well, not quite. OK - so to be fair, I'm due to have a smoke shortly after I finish this post - but what I fail to understand is this near-obsession with marijuana that seems the same the world over.

There is this secret inner clique of "weed-smokers", in any social gathering on any continent, a few people will lurk conspicuously, muttering something about "going for a smoke". Inevitably this leads to a crowd of (typically) men sneaking off, passing round a joint while feigning interest in the person who supplied the gear long enough to finish it. Said party then return to the festivities noticably less socially capable, quite a bit paler and a lot more hungry. I've seen it in Egypt, Peru, Indonesia, India, etc...

Why the mass of "Mary Jane" T-shirts and "Take me to your dealer" posters? Why have so many songs devoted to it? Why have so many teenagers desperately trying to be cool by associating themselves with something that is, fundamentally, not very cool at all? My feelings on weed share (disturbing) similarities with those of sex -

It's good - but let's not make TOO much of a fuss - Jesus!

[Bindair Dundat]