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bharrell
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 102
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 Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I saw this exact contract language at Web International. It's to try and force you to leave China and not go across the street and work for the competition. It is technically possible to switch employers mid contract(I have done it) and Web wants to make this difficult. They want your passport so they can go down to the police station and have your RP stamped cancelled as of an effective date so you must exit the PRC by that date and not be able to transfer the visa to another employer. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Is this type of clause normal in contracts in China? |
It is normal for schools to cancel ties with a teacher leaving. It is not normal if the teacher leaves and goes back to their home country. There would be no last pay to hold on to if the teacher got paid and left. The school is not thinking about that.
A teacher should always scout out schools before signing a contract. If a teacher signs a contract with school A and finds school B next door better, woe is them. They didn't do their research properly.
If it is intended to prevent teachers from migrating to another local school, then I support this. The school got you into China, they don't want to be used as a stepping stone. |
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Gummy Bear
Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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My friend just went through an ugly ordeal and unclealex is absolutely right. Only the PSB can take action to cancel a visa and deport someone.
But having said that there are schools who owe a lot of back wages to former teachers and they would rather have them gone than to pay 50.000 to 100,000 so they will routinely report their terminated teachers in hopes of getting them gone instead of paid. China ESL is known to deliberately drag their feet on release letters for exactly this reason.
I think every teacher should insert a clause in their contract that says:
"Within 72 hours of termination, for whatever reason(s), the teacher shall be provided to original, signed, and sealed, hard copies of their release letter free of charge, or ____________school is required to pay a 20,000 yuan fine by default." |
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JoeKing
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| godmachine12 wrote: |
| Oh, I see. The law is a bit murky on whether you can stay or not stay. Some people will tell you 'yes, but you can't work' and other will say 'you have to go once you've left your employer'. Honestly, I'm still not sure, but I've gone in and out of the country and not once have I been questioned. It looks I'm going to be okay till May. Fingers crossed anyway… |
So say the the actual visa in your passport shows that you have several more months before expiration, but when you try to re-enter China the "system" shows your visa has been cancelled. What would happen then? (A serious question, not rhetorical). |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| You wouldn't be allowed to enter. It's the RP, not the visa, but you know that. |
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JoeKing
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| johntpartee wrote: |
| You wouldn't be allowed to enter. It's the RP, not the visa, but you know that. |
Right, the RP. So, detained and sent back, or out, on first flight? |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| I don't know about the specifics here, I've never known anybody who tried to enter on a cancelled RP. I would assume so, though. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| Something else occurred to me. When you try to board a flight into China, your stuff is run through the system at the point of departure, so there might be a red flag there..... |
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JoeKing
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Well, if you're going to get stopped, better at that point. |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| johntpartee wrote: |
| Something else occurred to me. When you try to board a flight into China, your stuff is run through the system at the point of departure, so there might be a red flag there..... |
On my last return to China I returned with 1 week left on my R.P. The airline was extremely hesitant letting me board. They held me at the gate and made a lot of phone calls, I don't know who they were ringing but it had me worried! In the end I got on fine and there was no problem. I think the airline just wanted to cover their backs in case they did let an 'illegal' in. |
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JoeKing
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Shroob wrote: |
| johntpartee wrote: |
| Something else occurred to me. When you try to board a flight into China, your stuff is run through the system at the point of departure, so there might be a red flag there..... |
On my last return to China I returned with 1 week left on my R.P. The airline was extremely hesitant letting me board. They held me at the gate and made a lot of phone calls, I don't know who they were ringing but it had me worried! In the end I got on fine and there was no problem. I think the airline just wanted to cover their backs in case they did let an 'illegal' in. |
That's a little bit different. They could see just by looking at your passport that you only had one week left on your RP.
But you are right about the airline covering its back. I was once almost not allowed to board a flight to Thailand because I did not have proof of onward travel. After 5 minutes of explaining the situation(my wife worked for an airline then and was making me a reservation), they let me board after having me sign a waiver or something saying they were not responsible if I was refused entry. |
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Gtomas
Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| godmachine12 wrote: |
| The law is a bit murky on whether you can stay or not stay. Some people will tell you 'yes, but you can't work' and other will say 'you have to go once you've left your employer'. Honestly, I'm still not sure, but I've gone in and out of the country and not once have I been questioned. It looks I'm going to be okay till May. Fingers crossed anyway… |
I spoke to a lawyer and some people at the American consulate in Guangzhou. They were of the opinion that the residence permit can't be canceled without the school bringing the passport to the police. As for the foreign experts certificate, I'm not sure.
My former employer sent me some e-mail threats about cancelling this and that and taking me to "labour court" for damages. They owe me more money than the damages they are asking, so I have no idea if they intend to follow through on the threat.
I'm just a little bit worried considering I cross into Hong Kong to buy medicine for some Chinese friends. I don't know if I could end up flagged in "the system" or however things are registered here. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| They were of the opinion that the residence permit can't be canceled without the school bringing the passport to the police |
They are incorrect. |
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Gtomas
Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| johntpartee wrote: |
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| They were of the opinion that the residence permit can't be canceled without the school bringing the passport to the police |
They are incorrect. |
Do you have some first hand experience with this? Or perhaps a place where I could read the law (in English) for myself?
This information seems incredibly hard to track down.
Doubly so considering people who should know the rules, don't. But, eh, China... |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you have some first hand experience with this? |
Yes, it happened to me. I did a runner at a college in Henan in 2011. The FAO sent me an e-mail telling me he had cancelled my resident permit. When I returned in 2012, it showed up on the system that it had been cancelled (even though I was entering after the expiration date; I had a new Z visa. I was allowed to enter with the visa, but when my new [current] employer applied for the new RP the previous cancellation popped up). I was also blacklisted, but I appealed and won. |
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