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timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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 Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Pretty much sums up the sorry state of it all. And that's even before we get to how little real benefit they have for students |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Japan Times article on the language school industry |
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| timothypfox wrote: |
| This is a thoughtful article I found in the Japan Times online with I think pretty accurate insights into the state of the Eikaiwa (language school) industry in Japan. It is a little cynical... |
It's a trades unionist's recruitment pamphlet, thinly disguised as a newspaper article. Still, he summarizes the grievances pretty well.
My take on it is that the successful chains have succeeded by de-skilling their labour forces. Teachers are given a minutely prescribed method to follow: professional planning and creativity are not required. This makes it much easier, and cheaper, to open a new school, and the customers hardly notice the difference.
And I'm quite concerned about the housing issue. In the worst cases, teachers who want to leave are clearing being cheated. |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Interesting article but as much as i dislike the eikaiwa chains and would never want to work at one full time, it definitely does exaggerate a little. Most of the big eikaiwa pay between 250,000-300,000 (if you include overtime), to say that this is 'just enough to survive on' is a bit of a stretch, especially for a young and single person.
As some people mentioned in the comments section, eikaiwa is a good way to get into Japan, enjoy a few years of fun, get some experience on your resume and then move onto something else. If you stay in one of these corporate eikaiwas too long, you've got no one to blame but yourself.
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And I'm quite concerned about the housing issue. In the worst cases, teachers who want to leave are clearing being cheated. |
Isn't this the same in almost all countries? You sign a contract for a year and if you leave early you get screwed. |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:36 am Post subject: |
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It' still good to have a clear, coherent and non hysterical point of view on the problems with Eikaiwas.
To be honest I think the people who say " Well if you dont learn Japanese, get a masters and start your own school like I dd you deserve what you get". - often sound a bit smug as they arent really approaching the fact that Eikawas are exploitative and do lie through their teeth when hiring.
I agree that you need to raise your game to escape the fate, but Im glad that there is this side of the argument out there.
Likewise, potential workers need to know about the housing thing, as being unable to get out of a bad position can make your time abroad very miserable. |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:13 am Post subject: |
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To be honest I think the people who say " Well if you dont learn Japanese, get a masters and start your own school like I dd you deserve what you get". - often sound a bit smug as they arent really approaching the fact that Eikawas are exploitative and do lie through their teeth when hiring.
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Smug they may be, but that doesn't make it any less true. If you stay in Japan for more than a few years without learning any Japanese, gaining any qualifications, getting any experience outside of a chain eikaiwas or saving money to start your own business of somesort, what else can you expect?
If i owned my own English school and a guy who'd lived in Japan for more than a year came through my door without any Japanese ability or teaching qualifications, I'd tell him to not bother wasting my time.
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| Likewise, potential workers need to know about the housing thing, as being unable to get out of a bad position can make your time abroad very miserable. |
We're talking about full grown adults here, right? What housing thing are we even talking about? Everyone knows what signing a one year housing contract entails, if they don't then I have very little sympathy for them. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| If you stay in one of these corporate eikaiwas too long, you've got no one to blame but yourself. |
I tend to agree.
| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| Isn't this the same in almost all countries? You sign a contract for a year and if you leave early you get screwed. |
In some cases, I think people are being screwed a little too hard.
I quite understand that schools shouldn't lose money over housing. But, if the rumours are accurate, some seem to try to extract significant profits from rent. E.g. by using workplace pressure to push tenants into staying in an apartment, rather than letting them buy their way out for a reasonable fee.
Sometimes, I think the article goes a little too far. E.g.:
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| Armed with slick websites and flashy recruiting videos, big chains such as Aeon, Gaba and ECC send recruiters to Australasia, North America and Britain to attract fresh graduates. New hires come expecting to spend their weekends and vacations enjoying temples, shrines and exotic locales. |
This may be true, but I wouldn't criticise the eikaiwa industry for it. What exactly would you expect a recruitment website to show?
To come here "expecting to spend their weekends and vacations enjoying temples, shrines and exotic locales" smacks of wilful ignorance. Excellent resources like Dave's ESL Cafe one can be found with a simple Google query. If someone doesn't bother to do even basic research then, as far as I'm concerned, they are fair game for the eikaiwas. |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| To come here "expecting to spend their weekends and vacations enjoying temples, shrines and exotic locales" smacks of wilful ignorance. Excellent resources like Dave's ESL Cafe one can be found with a simple Google query. If someone doesn't bother to do even basic research then, as far as I'm concerned, they are fair game for the eikaiwas. |
To be fair, all the people who i know who've worked in eikaiwas have managed to find the time to see plenty of temples and do a reasonable amount of travel within Japan. |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Well, reasonable amount of travel is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. One thing I would agree with about the article is the terrible amount of vacation days some of these companies offer. Then again, as far as I'm aware, they don't lie about it, it's all there right in the contract and explained to prospective employees on their websites. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| One thing I would agree with about the article is the terrible amount of vacation days some of these companies offer. Then again, as far as I'm aware, they don't lie about it, it's all there right in the contract and explained to prospective employees on their websites. |
As an American, most of my jobs offered two weeks a year paid holiday. I realize Europeans may get more, but that part of eikaiwa did not surprise me. Plus, at Nova, I saw lots of temples on my days off (Thurs and Fri for a year).
I have no great love of eikaiwa/ALT companies, but the jobs are not bad for a young person just out of college. Even the money is at the low end of average for Americans with a four-year degree.
Besides, aren't many jobs "back home" McJobs as well?
Last edited by steki47 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| steki47 wrote: |
| I have no great love of eikaiwa/ALT companies, but the jobs are not bad for a young person just of college. ... Besides, aren't many jobs "back home" McJobs as well? |
Well said. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Thanks!
My main gripe is that the ladder is fairly low for foreign teachers and Japan collectively does not seem interested in attracting (or keeping) ELT professionals long-term.
Both Japan and South Korea simply require that one be a native speaker and have a college degree in anything. And then they complain about quality of teachers. And the teachers complain about the job quality.
The model is flawed from the get-go. |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| Quote: |
To be honest I think the people who say " Well if you dont learn Japanese, get a masters and start your own school like I dd you deserve what you get". - often sound a bit smug as they arent really approaching the fact that Eikawas are exploitative and do lie through their teeth when hiring.
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Smug they may be, but that doesn't make it any less true. If you stay in Japan for more than a few years without learning any Japanese, gaining any qualifications, getting any experience outside of a chain eikaiwas or saving money to start your own business of somesort, what else can you expect?
If i owned my own English school and a guy who'd lived in Japan for more than a year came through my door without any Japanese ability or teaching qualifications, I'd tell him to not bother wasting my time.
| Quote: |
| Likewise, potential workers need to know about the housing thing, as being unable to get out of a bad position can make your time abroad very miserable. |
We're talking about full grown adults here, right? What housing thing are we even talking about? Everyone knows what signing a one year housing contract entails, if they don't then I have very little sympathy for them. |
Yeah well done to anyone who is successful and happy with their lot, theyve done well and really it's the way if you dislike eikaiwa.
My point was that people always start up about it whenever it is mentioned. Ok if you dont have any ambition then you cant complain you arent moving up in the world, but that still doesnt stop people from wanting to improve their working conditions.
By throwing that "eikaiwa teachers are losers" spiel in there it distracts from the fact that they are actually very shady companies. I guess it seems a bit like victim blaming - you know what he's like why dont you just walk away!
Basically just cos people work there who some judge to be wasters, doesnt mean the company is entitled to treat them like crap.
I thought the housing thing was the practice of pressuring employess into taking company accomodation, with heavy penalties if they leave before the contract has ended. As Japan doesnt tie you to your company with the visa, quite a few companies use this as a method of tieing the employee down. |
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Big_H
Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 115
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| Well, reasonable amount of travel is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. One thing I would agree with about the article is the terrible amount of vacation days some of these companies offer. Then again, as far as I'm aware, they don't lie about it, it's all there right in the contract and explained to prospective employees on their websites. |
Indeed, but cases where you'd see some eikaiwas pressuring you to use your vacation days instead of your sick days for example aren't unheard of. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_H wrote: |
| Indeed, but cases where you'd see some eikaiwas pressuring you to use your vacation days instead of your sick days for example aren't unheard of. |
I'm afraid that's standard practice in Japan. |
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