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Gerund
Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 80 Location: Amerika
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: IO/DO grammar pattern differences between BE and AE |
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BE indirect object grammar patterns are a bit different than in AE. When the IO is a pronoun, only this pattern is used in AE:
I gave it to David.
The Brits would say that too, of course, but they might also say
I gave David it.
And if the DO were a pronoun as well, the Brits might say
I gave him it.
(Correct me if I'm wrong.)
My question is this: Could a BE speaker hypothetically start with a sentence like
I gave the books to the girls.
and by replacing both the IO and DO with pronouns, go from this
I gave them to them. (DO to IO)
to this?
I gave them them. (IO DO)
I’m entirely serious about this, and I hope for serious answers. Not interested in snarky or silly answers. |
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spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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I have indeed heard my British colleagues use such a construction from time to time. Wouldn't probably be on the list of items to teach non-native speakers, though, unless they're going to be long-term in a place where this would be ubiquitously used and they need to understand. |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 1218 Location: Ecuador
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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It would be fine in informal spoken BrE though you wouldn't usually write it. I wasn't aware of this difference in BrE and AmE. What constructions are possible in AmE? |
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent OP.
Wasn't aware of any differences here either, to be honest.
Would Americans not say the following?
"Then give them them then" |
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Daveric
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 37
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, we (AE) say all that. |
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JN
Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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On a slightly different topic, what bothers me is: Have you got... and Do you have... . The first I assume is UK English, but my students often say, e.g.: Have you a pencil? If my knowledge of UK English is correct, then it should be: Have you got a pencil, but it is unnatural for me to say this.
So far the books I've looked at seem to have the British grammar, so it's hard for me to speak one way and teach the students a different way, but confusing to them if I teach them both.
Last edited by JN on Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Part of the job. The whole world doesn't speak 'merican, for some silly reason  |
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I've never known students to be confused by either or both of these structures. Some teachers, maybe...  |
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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spiral78 wrote: |
Part of the job. The whole world doesn't speak 'merican, for some silly reason  |
And thank our lucky stars for that : ) |
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spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Amen, kamarad! |
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JN
Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think the confusion I've noticed with students is just that there is more than one way to say it, depending on the country. Perhaps I'll just not mention which is spoken in what country-at least to my lower level students.
It's okay with me if the students don't speak "'merician." I don't have a problem with that, but I don't try to speak UK English.
I once worked with a couple of translators from England and one said he'd teach me correct English and the other guy, who was from Cambridge (not sure if this matters), said the other guy wasn't teaching me proper English. I suppose I'll never speak proper English, whatever that is. |
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