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buffalobill12323
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 115
Location: China
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 Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| you're so loaded down with financial obligations, wife, kids |
[/quote]
''Loaded down with ....... wife and kid ''- Certainly you did not use the actual word burden but I'm pretty sure a thesaurus would list 'loaded down with' as a synonym.
| Quote: |
| This forum always has a few posters who continuously brag about how much they earn while trying to demean those who work or earn less. And even after dozens of threads on the topic it never seems to sink in with these people that some "pretend jobs" have benefits other jobs don't have, and some people are just fine with that. |
To use the most overused idiom in China, 'every coin has 2 sides'. Doubtless there is truth in what you say, the flip side is that each time a high earner makes mention of it, even in the right context, he is set upon by haranguing part-timers calling him liar and fraud - there is a significant population on here who cannot abide the thought of people doing well in China
| Quote: |
| I know some people who earn a lot more than me, 25,000 and up, but they also pay 5,000 |
I have never paid a penny rent in China
Being factual is only considered bragging by those with ulterior motives, I am not shy with my opinions, sadly often to my own detriment, but yeah, I think people who work 12 hours a week and call it a full time job are living in laa laa land
My primary job, the one which provides the apartment gives me 22 weeks paid holiday a year. I have done SFA for the last 7 weeks, the next 12 are going to be pretty hectic mind, but then those students are off to Australia, so i'll be taking it easy(ish) from june to sept. - This is not bragging you understand, I am pointing out the facts in an attempt to illustrate your notion that we are mindless drones working 50 hours a week is bollix |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| BlueBlood wrote: |
| Simon in Suzhou wrote: |
In my experience of searching for university jobs, the best salaries are in Guangdong Province- Guangzhou, Shenzhen, etc. A Chinese friend of mine told me that it is really hard for her to place people in these jobs because the competition is so high. So keep that in mind.
I second what Non Sequitur says about getting a job with low hours and more time for private classes or a part-time job if you want to bump up your salary.
I'm not someone to make grammar comments at all, it is just a message board after all...but the title of this post really made me cringe. We all make mistakes, but you might get some more personal help in finding a good job from the regulars here if you proofread a little more carefully before clicking "submit." Not trying to be snarky, just helpful. |
Dear God, Simon, I made a TYPO! Thank God and you for catching that and now, just maybe, I can receive some good input from members of this board. In the meantime, let's all hope and pray Dave's entire site doesn't come crashing down. Heaven help us!
Good God, man, you practically saved my life! |
What I meant by saying that is that when someone is sincere and seems like a good teacher looking for a job, regulars will often send them a private message giving them the inside track on a REAL job opening at their university. When someone makes a bad grammar error (city's and cities is not a misspelled typo), they are far less likely to get an invite to work as a colleague teaching English. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| I know some people who earn a lot more than me, 25,000 and up, but they also pay 5,000 or more of it in rent. Should I call them suckers because the apartment provided by my "pretend job" is just as nice but it's free? |
You probably should not call them suckers unless they made very poor decisions. If they rent or own their own house...they chose it. Did you choose your home? Nothing wrong with accepting Uni housing and the house I currently live in is not ideal for me and my family but I chose it. Nobody said...here....you live here. Just keep that in mind for a more balanced perspective.
_________________________________
This is aimed at some in this thread and in another.
I hope this forum does not drop down to the 'mine is bigger than yours' level but I do see negativity from certain corners that I never expected such behavior from.
I don't give one crap what job somebody has so long as their happy doing it. Apologies in advance for bringing somebody into this conversation but D-M (and others like him...sorry D-M just your name came to mind) who by all accounts seems to be a very qualified ESL teacher and seems to care deeply about his work earns peanuts while busting his ass for his students. This is admirable....though personally I would not and could not take the same path in life. Nobody should take anything away from folks who do their job well regardless of their income/house/whatever. Does not matter if it is more/better or less/worse than yours.
Stop the childish hatin' (that comment is not directed at a single person)
I hope some of us can grow the f up and have discussions about salary and ways to earn additional income above and beyond advertised salaries but it seems...we can't. Such a shame. I'm sure there is a lot I could learn from others and I'm sure there are some things I could teach others but the recent hostility makes me understand why folks who earn real money(I'm not one of those guys...yet) do not post here.
BTW...I read these forums every day and have not seen anybody bragging about their salary (recently)....much less continuously. Also have not seen many/any demeaning remarks towards those who earn less. Perhaps I missed those posts. Or perhaps some are hyper-sensitive.
I'd hope this could be a place where we could openly discuss ways to improve our lives both professionally and personally in regards to living and working in China. Seems it is...unless one earns over 15k a month in which case they run the risk of being called a liar.... /sigh
...and to Simon in Suzhou...no...I don't believe many 'regulars' will give others the inside track on a job they currently work at. Most who have done so in the past have been burned in one way or another. Either from folks here or folks in real life. If your experience is different I believe it to be the exception. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Cities with the Highest Paying University ESL Jobs |
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| BlueBlood wrote: |
Based not only on this board, but also from PMing and even meeting current/former FT's, I've frankly gotten some figures that are rather out-there. By "out-there" I mean a huge discrepancy btw the high end and the low end.
In fact, I was personally offered a uni job which would have started this month. Free flat on campus. The hours? 18 teaching per week. The pay? Wait for it...About $650 U.S. per month. No joke there.
On the other end, an FT I know well, who's actually a gifted teacher but doesn't have a bachelor's degree (not that his school knows that!), told me about his situation: 16 contact hours per week; free flat on campus; and the Pay? Again, wait for it...$1,500 U.S. per month!
Can a few of the old hands here please chime in on this? As well as FT's currently working at Chinese unis? Where are the highest-paid uni jobs?
Thanks in advance. At the former pay, I literally cannot afford to teach in China due to financial obligations back home. At the latter, I can. |
I don't know how the firestorm evolved into what it is now, but since my comments started it, maybe I can explain them.
First, the OP has been a member for some time, and has racked up 250+ comments, yet he's still asking for others to do his homework for him.
Second, the shift in point of view makes it difficult to determine whether he is in China or back in his (presumably western) home country.
The comment "... At the former pay, I literally cannot afford to teach in China due to financial obligations back home. At the latter, I can..." makes his situation sound as if he's both "back home" AND in China. Maybe he's confused; he was "personally offered a uni job which would have started this month." Huh?
On January 11th, he wrote: Things changed Stateside for me personally, so the point became moot. That said, if I do end up seeking an FT in China in the future I'll probably try to get a 6-month contract regardless of other factors (I realize this might not be realistic). That's bc I can stand on my head for 6 mo's, but I'd hate to land someplace, realize I'm isolated in a dumpy Chinese "suburb," my flat's on the ground floor and smells, and yet I'm earning a whopping 6,500/mo. for my misery.
So where is he? In China or "back home" or BOTH? Why would he make such assumptions? What's his agenda?
He himself states that he can't afford to live in China. So why is he ranting about it? Again, what's his agenda? (We've seen this sort of thing from CFTU ad nauseum for months now). My advice is for him to move on if he can't make it in China. China doesn't owe him a living.
He knows that, and I'm sure that he knows enough about China to know that China doesn't owe its own citizens a living.
I believe that his original post (before it was edited) asked the readers to let him know if his concerns were "superfluous" or had been covered previously. I let him know. I'm sorry if he (and others) didn't like my response. My response was just a response, not an attempt to restrain freedom of expression.
Did my response come across as abrupt and a bit nasty? Probably. I've lost patience with people who arrive in China with a bagful of false assumptions. I've also lost patience with the types of posts such as the first in this thread whose sole intent seems to be to engage forum members in pointless discussions about issues that have been discussed several times in one month. Further, the bellyaching about China from people who seem not to be in China is a bit irritating. I apologize to those whom I have truly offended. I will try not to respond to such posts from hereon.
I consider myself an astute reader; whether the medium is an online forum or not, something about the original message doesn't pass the smell test. (Credit to the originator of the phrase--- MuffinTop? Fat Chris?).
On the positive side, I greatly admire the OP's descriptive language and effective use of idioms. A+
Over and out.
Last edited by Bud Powell on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:24 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The OP is BlueBlood and I can pretty much assure you he has no affiliation with CFTU. He's just very cautious and seeking more information. I completely understand where he is coming from even though I essentially popped on over knowing only how to find China on a map. |
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mw182006
Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ugh at the CTFU comment. And yes, salary threads tend to nosedive quickly around here but I highly doubt it's scaring any fat cats away from the uber-hip Dave's ESL Cafe. The majority of active posters here are respectful but there have been people who like to drop in and comment that we're idiots/losers for not making 15k a month like them. That's exactly where the mortgage comment came from and I can't fault anyone for mistaking them for the same person when they're using phrases like 'pretend jobs' and whatnot. For whatever reason people cannot seem to grasp that there are different motivations for coming here and the almighty dollar is not always #1 on everyone's list. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I remember somebody making a remark about paying 2 mortgages...was that this thread? I can't find it now. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| muffintop wrote: |
| I remember somebody making a remark about paying 2 mortgages...was that this thread? I can't find it now. |
darn you, muffy! you made me look!
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=1127068&highlight=#1127068
| Sinaman wrote: |
Well I spend about RMB13,000 because...
I give RMB3,500 to my wife which was her salary before I asked her to quit to take care of our baby (shes 4 months old...my baby, not my wife)
I have two mortgages back home of which I need to top up around RMB2,000 a month.
Rent is RMB3,500 |
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Guerciotti
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 842
Location: In a sleazy bar killing all the bad guys.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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I'm also not certain where the fire started but I threw some gas on it, so I apologize.
I don't think it's easy to make good money, but regardless that was well off the topic. I wish those who endeavor to make money the best. Muffintop I hope you achieve your goals and it seems you're well on your way to do so. I imagine you run some classes - your own classes - of four or five or more students and that is where the money's at. Not my level of pay but higher. Go for it.
And yea the OP was a bit annoying, with the sans bachelor's degree and hyperbole ... wait for it! ... was off-putting.
Anyway everyone TIC so make the best of it every day because wherever you're at, there you are. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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I remember that thread, thanks choubrofu...I was baffled by 2kRMB for 2 mortgages....
@Guerciotti
Thanks man. Cheers. |
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ecubyrd
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
I realize I confused you with another poster who has property and mortgages in Australia, so I take back what I said above. And I never referred to your family as a "burden." What I said was;
| Quote: |
| you're so loaded down with financial obligations, wife, kids |
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The abbreviated version above does not give the full context of what you originally said.
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| Yeah we get it, you're the only guy on planet earth that's working hard, getting rich, and enjoying life. What you really mean to say is that you're so loaded down with financial obligations, wife, kids, two mortgages in Australia, and who knows what else, that you can't afford to work less than 40 or 50 hours a week. For some of us working more to earn more is optional. Having options means working more when you want to or need to, not because you have to. So maybe, just maybe, there are other ways to succeed in life? |
That comes across as bitter. |
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ecubyrd
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| This forum always has a few posters who continuously brag about how much they earn while trying to demean those who work or earn less. And even after dozens of threads on the topic it never seems to sink in with these people that some "pretend jobs" have benefits other jobs don't have, and some people are just fine with that. |
Name the names of these posters that always are doing that.
| buffalobill12323 wrote: |
To use the most overused idiom in China, 'every coin has 2 sides'. Doubtless there is truth in what you say, the flip side is that each time a high earner makes mention of it, even in the right context, he is set upon by haranguing part-timers calling him liar and fraud - there is a significant population on here who cannot abide the thought of people doing well in China |
I think that might be taking it a bit far, but I see where you are going with it. I'd say those of us in the higher earning category rarely post here mostly because we don't have much to add to discussions, as well as a little of what you mentioned. Let's be honest, the site mostly serves uni teachers in China.
| Quote: |
| I know some people who earn a lot more than me, 25,000 and up, but they also pay 5,000 |
I pay rent, albeit with the housing stipend that I'm afforded monthly. I get to choose my own housing. It works well for me. I don't see the big deal there.
| buffalobill12323 wrote: |
| I am pointing out the facts in an attempt to illustrate your notion that we are mindless drones working 50 hours a week is bollix |
I see where you are going with that as well. Sure, I have to be at work around 40 hours a week (roughly 15 teaching hours), but it is what it is and I get paid accordingly for it, so again, that works well for me. Hell, I'm coming to the end of my 6 week winter break and I can't wait to get back to work, in all honesty. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:13 am Post subject: |
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Bitter? Think what you want. I see people on here all the time bragging about how much they earn and writing condescending posts to those who work or have less. Frankly I don't believe half of what these people write and I don't really care about the rest of it because what other people do has zero influence on my life. and I won't be naming names, I can't be bothered to track down posts to find out who said what. But if you're really interested in the details I'm sure you can use the search function as well as anyone else. Or just wait a month or two till someone starts yet another pointless thread comparing salaries. Frankly speaking most of what gets posted on this forum is pointless and repetitive, and I'll take my small share of the blame for contributing to the uselessness. Which leads me to think, why bother at all?
Last edited by Javelin of Radiance on Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ecubyrd
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| Bitter? Think what you want. I see people on here all the time bragging about how much they earn and writing condescending posts to those who work or have less. Frankly I don't believe half of what these people write and I don't really care about the rest of it because what other people do has zero influence on my life. and I won't be naming names, I can't be bothered to track down posts to find out who said what. If you're interested in the details you can use the search function just as well as I can. |
Then why the post to flame bbill? Was it because you don't believe him?
You said before that there are always a few posters that continuously brag, so I just assumed that you had some specific people in mind. |
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ecubyrd
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| muffintop wrote: |
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| I know some people who earn a lot more than me, 25,000 and up, but they also pay 5,000 or more of it in rent. Should I call them suckers because the apartment provided by my "pretend job" is just as nice but it's free? |
You probably should not call them suckers unless they made very poor decisions. If they rent or own their own house...they chose it. Did you choose your home? Nothing wrong with accepting Uni housing and the house I currently live in is not ideal for me and my family but I chose it. Nobody said...here....you live here. Just keep that in mind for a more balanced perspective.
_________________________________
This is aimed at some in this thread and in another.
I hope this forum does not drop down to the 'mine is bigger than yours' level but I do see negativity from certain corners that I never expected such behavior from.
I don't give one crap what job somebody has so long as their happy doing it. Apologies in advance for bringing somebody into this conversation but D-M (and others like him...sorry D-M just your name came to mind) who by all accounts seems to be a very qualified ESL teacher and seems to care deeply about his work earns peanuts while busting his ass for his students. This is admirable....though personally I would not and could not take the same path in life. Nobody should take anything away from folks who do their job well regardless of their income/house/whatever. Does not matter if it is more/better or less/worse than yours.
Stop the childish hatin' (that comment is not directed at a single person)
I hope some of us can grow the f up and have discussions about salary and ways to earn additional income above and beyond advertised salaries but it seems...we can't. Such a shame. I'm sure there is a lot I could learn from others and I'm sure there are some things I could teach others but the recent hostility makes me understand why folks who earn real money(I'm not one of those guys...yet) do not post here.
BTW...I read these forums every day and have not seen anybody bragging about their salary (recently)....much less continuously. Also have not seen many/any demeaning remarks towards those who earn less. Perhaps I missed those posts. Or perhaps some are hyper-sensitive.
I'd hope this could be a place where we could openly discuss ways to improve our lives both professionally and personally in regards to living and working in China. Seems it is...unless one earns over 15k a month in which case they run the risk of being called a liar.... /sigh
...and to Simon in Suzhou...no...I don't believe many 'regulars' will give others the inside track on a job they currently work at. Most who have done so in the past have been burned in one way or another. Either from folks here or folks in real life. If your experience is different I believe it to be the exception. |
That was a really good post, muffintop. Thanks for sharing. |
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