Job Discussion Forums

[MisterButtkins]

Hey. Gonna be looking for a job for August, starting next week. Was wondering if anyone had suggestions on the best way to negotiate for a higher starting salary from a school.

My basic tactic is this: I take the amount I want, or the amount I think I can get. I add a few thousand on top of that. Call this figure <my offer>. School offers me some amount, call this <their offer>. So I say, "Well, I have good qualities X,Y,Z, so you should pay me <my offer>." Then I hope that they increase <their offer> so that it gets closer to <my offer>, and thus also closer to the amount I actually want.

Now, if they come back and say, 'No, we will only give you <their offer>,' I kind of just try to argue a little more, and then say that I can't take such a low offer and I say goodbye, hoping that they will then come back with a higher offer to pull me back in.

If they really stick with their initial offer though, not a lot I can do.

What other tactics do people have? I feel my method is very basic and I'm not really getting as much as I could.

[mw182006]

Is it already time to start looking to lock down a job for the fall? Honest question as I don't think I want to renew where I'm at currently. I would think it's a little too early and the school has the luxury of playing the waiting game. I figured April-ish but what do I know...

[MisterButtkins]

Oh, I probably won't be locking the job down until sometime in April or even May, but I'm going to start getting my stuff together and looking around next week. But when I do lock the job down, I'm hoping I'll have the negotiation skills to squeeze out some extra yuan.

[muffintop]

If the salary is reasonable I'd negotiate for other things for the first contract period. Hours, better house, better schedule, better classes, or whatever. Sure, now they have your resume but you're an unknown quantity to them. Prove your worth...and more importantly for many schools here...prove you aren't a troublemaker and then ask for more money when you negotiate your second contract if you'd like.

I've noticed that many times, folks (us and them) only focus on the salary. So if you push hard there it's easy to walk away from you and extend the position to somebody else. However, if you ask for other reasonable concessions you'd stand a far greater chance of landing the job without creating any ill will.

And FWIW...you never...ever...want to be the guy with the highest salary. It's far safer to have the lowest hours or best schedule or highest salary per hour than it is to be the FT who they sign the biggest check to every month.

note - this is only for dealing directly with schools.

[MisterButtkins]

Yeah I've gone that route too. One school was unwilling to give me more salary, but they bumped up my airfare bonus. But I think there's no harm in trying.

[muffintop]

If you don't want to teach the 1st years or if you won't accept split shifts......or anything really. It certainly can be in the contract somewhere.

I'm not suggesting these should be things you push for, just giving you ideas.

[GreatApe]

Hey MB! ... Good Luck on the job search!

As to your negotiation strategy, I have to say that it pretty much mirrors my own approach. Honestly, I've used it a few times, albeit with limited success so far!

It just seems to me that negotiations about salary for teaching jobs in China are frequently in direct proportion to the school's need or desperation (which is often tied to student enrollment or "demand"). The presence, or lack thereof, of other FTs at the school can also make a big difference as to salary negotiations.

T.I.C. ... but the few times I've attempted to play "hardball" with regard to salary negotiations have been met with something less than enthusiasm. On the other hand, I've often been surpised by the generosity of my bosses (two out of four, at least) and the raises I have been given (without really having to ask or negotiate) at the end of a first contract.

Last year, when I left a job in GD, I tried to negotiate with a small private college using the strategy you described in the OP ... we were separated by a 3,000 ¥ per month salary difference, but it turned out that I couldn't close that salary gap.

Hopefully you'll have better luck! Keep us updated and let us know how it goes!

--GA

[Shroob]

I echo the comments about lower hours being better than more salary. Most of the people who have posted here are experienced enough to know that private work is where the bulk of the money comes from.

It's also possible to get 'little things' put in the contract. E.g. I once had it specified I'd teach the freshmen = 4 fewer weeks of teaching for me.

[Non Sequitur]

What leverage do you have in April when the Chinese school thinks it has loads of time to recruit at standard rates?
Generally the FAO which you are negotiating with has no idea of what your schedule will (or might) be.
Hell the school won't know what enrolments they are going to get until students complete the entrance exam and start applying.
The emphasis on formula negotiation 'My x and their y' etc is out of place IMHO.
When you see their offer (say 5000pm) respond in general terms. 'I was hoping for a little better given my quals, exp'.
If they ask your expectation say 6000 and settle for 5500.
If no can do ask for actual return ticket reimbursement rather than an allowance of 8000 or whatever.
The hours has already been mentioned and 16 spread over 4 days compared to 18 over 5, could give an even better benefit which could come from privates.
The end of your contract when they want you to re-sign is the time for serious hikes but in general we're a commodity and the rates and the process of hiring reflect that.

[muffintop]

[MisterButtkins]

[Bud Powell]

The end of March is a good time to start looking for a new job at a public university. By that time, the university has already begun giving notice or has begun asking about teachers' intent to return. (Not all universities are so considerate, though).

If one is in-country, it's also a good time to visit the campus (and if possible) speak to the FAO and resident FTs.

As far as negotiating pay with a public university goes, unless the university has a desperate need or the applicant has many years of experience in China, it may be difficult to negotiate for more than the standard offerings for a given area until late in the summer if the school hasn't hired anyone yet.

But you never know. ALWAYS ask for more than the contract offers. Public universities seem to have been scaling back its offerings in recent years, so it's good to know what other area universities are offering. If your target university won't pay utilities, find out what other area universities are offering and not only be guided by that but use it as a bargaining chip if the university down the street is offering to pay utilities, etc..

Good Luck!

[JoeKing]

Some good tips here, and most are basic to any kind of negotiation.

To recap what others have said:

Knowing ahead of time what you want v. what you are prepared to accept. If you have "walk away power", as one of my college professors called it, you are in a stronger position.

Definitely don't let the other side know how desperate you are to live in that city, whatever the reason. Of course that will affect what you are prepared to accept, but keep it to yourself.

In addition to what others have said about looking at the overall package instead of the salary only, it's also wise to consider other things such as the city's cost of living, ease of getting around, commute time,etc. Those things could have a big effect on your net pay and/or your quality of life.

[Non Sequitur]

[doogsville]

I would say the first thing you should do is write down a list of your 'saleable' points. If you want a school to pay you more than they are advertising, then you have to give them a reason. Once you're clear in you mind as to what you have to offer, then you have to sell it to them.