Job Discussion Forums

renglish · Joined: 24 Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Location: CHina

re: China (Shenzhen) International Personnel Training Center operating as CIPTC.

I worked for CIPTC and was the top teacher (I was the only teacher who got a raise in May 2013). On May 31, they offered me a new contract and I accepted. On June 7, my Mother died. CIPTC delayed processing my new visa, and withheld my passport. I could not leave China until July 25. I missed the funeral and burial.

CIPTC admitted, in writing, that the delay was their fault and they have no excuse. They have not offered condolences. They refuse to pay for my expenses of postponing, and then cancelling flights I booked to go home. I have a lawyer and have started a law suit.

This is the most disgusting thing I have heard of in China. Be advised should you choose to work for CIPTC. The contacts are Ray Han and Jon Walsh. The owner is the Board of Education (yes, they are government - not private) and the manager is Liang Zhaowu

I have documentation (email, text messages, etc) to prove everything I say here. PM me if you want more details.[/b]

choudoufu · Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC

muffintop · Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 803

If this is the only issue you have with the school....It's not enough by a longshot to have this kind of *WARNING* post.

Explain how they withheld your passport. Did you ask for it to be immediately returned and it wasn't? Was it in their possession at the time?

renglish · Joined: 24 Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Location: CHina

There is much more detail to the story. (wait for the book or the movie - too long for a forum)

1) They should have applied on June 1. New contracts were due on May 31. There were about 30 teachers returning to CIPTC from previous year. We were told to submit passports early to avoid the law changes starting July 1. Many did this including me. CIPTC did not process one work permit application until after July 1.

2) Before July 1, 2013, it was only 5 days for a renewal. I booked the flight home for the funeral allowing seven days (my family agreed to wait until I got home) I phoned or sms daily and was told one more day. There was delay after delay for which they claim responsibility. I was always told 1 or 2 more days Eventually, they delayed processing until I fell under the new rules (effective July 1) , which are now 20 days.

I do not know where you get such a long period of 2 or 3 months, unless it is a new work permit and counted from time a contract is verbally agreed, courier for paper copy to travel to and from North America, stamped, then FEC (Foreign Expert's Certificate) application, and finally work permit. The total time can take 2 or 3 months. This was just a renewal with a valid FEC.

drjtrekker · Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 251

Sad case...condolences RENGLISH.

BUT...this is China.
I don't understand why many people who work/live here don't understand WHERE they are...

compassion? condolences? sympathy? competency? care?
And...Most disgusting?!?!
Just give yourself more time. :0

NOTE for Newbies here or planning to come here...
This is not your home country where things may be a bit more organized with laws and all that gushy kinda stuff.

muffintop · Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 803

choudoufu · Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC

ok, you say you were offered and accepted a new contract on may 31,
(that was a friday) along with 30 other teachers who were renewing.
you don't think there might have been some processing required at
the school? you know, signatures, chops and seals, copies, and so on?
you really expected they'd submit all 30 packages within 24 hours of
you signing? you were told to sign by may 31 to beat the july 1 deadline.
without knowing when your current rp's expired, sounds like they
wanted to get everything in order to submit by the end of june.

processing times were short, now they are longer. in fact, some who
applied before the cutoff were processed according to the new rules.
some psb offices didn't know how to react, so went with the new rules
immediately. better safe than solly, y'know. i got the 2-3 month wait
for RP renewal (not new z-visas!) from reading posts on this here forum.
lots of confusion as the new rules went into effect. naturally, there were
many delays..........

renglish · Joined: 24 Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Location: CHina

@drjtrekker
yes, but I understand.

I have 12 years being married to Chinese woman, with three years living in China after the divorce. Also 20 plus years management in North America. Respect for elders and ancestors is high in Chinese culture. There is even a public holiday for ancestors.

I NEVER heard or witnessed any company deliberately prevent a person from attending the funeral of a parent/ sibling/child until now. The emotion pain i suffered as a result and the impact on my children, is still being felt 8 months later. And they admitted they caused the delay. So most disgusting is appropriate. I never expected that from a company. Had I known ....

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

Guerciotti · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:10 am Post subject:

Renglish, my condolences.

As others said, processing times have increased. Besides that, there is a period of time when your school does not have your passport, the PSB has possession. Thus there is a period of time when you school cannot return your passport under any circumstances because they don't have it.

Things went bad, and that is a shame. Do you really think they maliciously prevented your trip? I know TIC but seriously? That is beyond belief. A simpler explanation is: their hands were tied. They could not assist you but would have, I'm sure, been delighted to do so.

However, suing them over this matter will get you nothing but further strained relations, confusion and loss of face all around. Oh and whatever you paid your lawyer you may consider gone. Litigiousness is impertinent in any country. Yes I am (was) an attorney and I know what I'm talking about.

Your mother passed and you need a means to release anger, sorrow, and loss, but this is not it.

jimpellow · Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 913

"CIPTC admitted, in writing, that the delay was their fault and they have no excuse."

I guess I am most curious if you felt it was done with intent (as in they didn't have a back-up teacher so better that he stick around and thus exemplifying typical Chinese selfishness) or gross incompetence (also a typical mainland Chinese trait)?

Either way, Chinese very rarely take responsibility for their misdeeds so I am not surprised they made no effort to compensate you or even apologize. Sort of like when a Chinese driver goes down the street the wrong way and causes an accident. Then he gets out of the car and starts yelling as if it will somehow make it the other driver's fault. No self-monitoring skills, so next day he is driving down the street the wrong way again. Frightening that 25 percent of the Earth's population thinks this way.

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

teenoso · Joined: 18 Sep 2013 Posts: 365 Location: south china

Mr. Leafy · Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 246 Location: North of the Wall

Renglish, condolances. My own mother died just days after I arrived home, at a time when I hadn't been home in almost two years.

For anyone who may find themselves in similar circumstances to Renglish, embassies of many countries will issue emergency travel documents for cases like this.
I started this myself once, but got my passport back later the same day.

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

I've never had a reason to test this, but isn't it possible to get the passport back from the Exit/Entry Bureau (PSB) even before they have finished processing it? For me, in a terrible situation like renglish's, it would be worth it to go home, even if I had to start over with a new visa. Sorry for your loss and subsequent troubles, renglish.