Job Discussion Forums

[The Steakinator]

I worked for a crap-tastic employer in Guangzhou called Worlda (the now infamous Mary Yu/Yuk runs it) starting in September 2012. Aside from the ol' bait-and-switch, making a pass at me (in front of my wife), regularly bullying me, and just refusal to communicate, it was...the worst employer I've ever had. Long story short, after eight weeks, I tried to part amicably, which blew up in my face. She refused to even consider writing a release letter unless I handed over my passport) , sent daily e-mails claiming she was sending someone to cancel my visa in a few hours unless I came to see her (she couldn't since I had my passport and FEC with me), blacklist me, etc. After four weeks of trying to get my release and even hiring a lawyer, who drafted a four page letter of complaint to the ministry ("shockingly," nothing happened)we just left China in early December 2012.

Here's my questions:
1) Aside from the CFTU list, how do I know if I've been black listed?
2) Can a school invite me if I've been blacklisted but then I won't be able to get the residence?
3) If I return in January 2015 or Sept 2015, and work for s big chain like Wall Street, can they use their guangxi to handle anything a smallfry like Worlda (20-25 teachers max) could have thrown at me?
4) I'm hearing about five year bans, but previously I heard about 1-3 years...Is any of this above rumor level?

Thanks in advance.

[fat_chris]

[Simon in Suzhou]

I would just give it a try and apply. I find Chinese bosses are often full of bluster and BS when they don't get their way. Most are too lazy to do much of anything after you are gone. I'm not sure you can get blacklisted unless there is a legal matter or a claim that you stole from her or something. That's not to say it couldn't happen if someone had enough guangxi or a relative in the right gov't office. In my experience, however, Chinese folks in gov't offices are not going to go out of their way to do anything they don't have to!

My guess is you're OK.

[fat_chris]

[fat_chris]

[Bud Powell]

If there is any kind of blacklist, it's probably an informal list of undesirable teachers that has been compiled by recruiters.

I've known FTs who were complete f---ups at one school who very quickly got jobs elsewhere. If there is communication between FAO's and school managers/owners, it's more likely to occur AFTER the FT has been hired and come into question.

I wouldn't worry about a black list. One school gave me such an insanely difficult time after I made a series of innocuous requests (fix the A/C so that i didn't have an inch of water in my room, allow me to eat breakfast in the cafeteria, keep me apprised of schedule changes) and made such insane accusations and made sure that I couldn't stay in the country that I was sure it was curtains for me. It turned into a very nasty situation in which the recruiter got involved (as an advocate for me), and the school president got a not-so-friendly visit from me. (It was actually the vice president. The president had quit the week before). It was a very bad situation.

I went home that summer (courtesy of the school), and got a job in the fall that was literally down the street from the college that mistreated me. More interestingly, I found out a year later that the two colleges were considered "sister" colleges.

If there really IS a blacklist, I should have been on it.

So don't sweat it. Start applying to GOOD schools and see what happens.

Whatever you've read about the CFTU (or STFU as Choudoufu lovingly calls it)--- forget it. Search the forum to see what most folks have to say about that organization.

[The Steakinator]

[The Steakinator]

[Bud Powell]

[/quote]

Good info, that makes me feel better. But did you finish the contract or just walk out?[/quote]

I was so disgusted with the school. So much was wrong with the FAO and the way in which she treated the teachers. I got the bum's rush. On the last day of class (halfway through the contract), I was fired. Long story short: I went with the FAO to the PSB and watched as a two-day tourist visa was put in my passport.

I was gone quite quickly, and i was glad to get the h3ll out of there. I came out ahead on the deal. The school had to pay a penalty for early termination and for changing the terms of the contract.

I didn't do anything legally wrong. I merely got fed up with the BS and complained to every administrator I could find. The FAO kept digging a deeper and deeper grave for herself (by lying), and she had absolutely no choice but to get me out of there ASAP. If there was a blacklist, I would have been on it for being a troublemaker. Admittedly, I did cause a lot of trouble for the school because it caused me a lot of trouble.

It was tit tit for tat.

I found out later that that FAO was replaced when I left.

If there's a blacklist, I think that one's appearance on it largely depends upon an administrator's determination to gain revenge. I think that this FAO was just glad to get rid of me. That was good enough for her.

[The Steakinator]

[The Steakinator]

[RWA1981]

You may want to read this link for your answer...

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2013/03/20/english-teacher-blacklist

[Bud Powell]

Quite the story. When did that all happen and what do you make of the recent news of there being a blacklist with nine reasons on it?

It happened a long, long time ago. It's a common scenario.

Show me the "official" list with official chops and MAYBE I'll believe that one exists. Until then, it's all BS to me. I know of one teacher and one particular situation in which there would be no ifs, ands, or buts that he'd be on it. (It is NOT I). If somebody shows me the list, and his name isn't on it, there cannot be an official list.

Lately, the purported black list is being used by the CFTU to promote itself. It claims to be in possession of it. If one sends his name to the CFTU, he'll be told if he's on the list. If it is an officially government sanctioned list, why would anyone have problems publishing it?

[RWA1981]

So long as I am not on it I really don't give a f*ck but I hardly think any government official or even a principal would admit that they profile people on the sneak. What the hell- we do it back in America so why is it so hard to think that they don't do it in China? Anyway, I borrowed the below two argument/posts from two veteran users at a popular China expat forum which is self-explanatory:


"Stop laughing. About October of 2012, I saw an old copy of 2011 list at a joint CTA and CFTU meeting in a BeiDa coffee shop where the groups decided to merge. I forget how many people were on the list but the print-out was about 25 pages and they were not all expats - but maybe 80% were. It was on SAFEA letterhead with a lot of the Chinese text blacked out. But these two links might help. http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/t-2892 and http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2013/04/china-foreign-teachers-union-obtains.html

But if you think about it, it makes good sense for them to do this because of all the flaky FTs that come in late smelling like beer, or call in sick twice a week, or chase after the TAs or even some good-looking mothers. After the Neil Robinson horror story broke, I can't say I blame them. Just think of all the midnight runners out there. Would YOU want to hire one? Here's the latest link I could find on the subject which is February/2014: http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2014/02/china-foreign-teachers-now-monitored-by.html and the oldest reference I can find is from 2010 at this link: http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=5006.15

There definitely is a tracking system in place and I agree there should be. Would you trust some of your colleagues to actually teach your kids when they can't write a single paragraph without at least one or two spelling and grammar errors and their favorite cologne is Qingdao beer? Sometime back in 2012 the CFTU had posted the 2011 list on their .org website for members but I heard that Big Red made them take it down or get their web site blocked. Here is the original September/2012 link I found that confirmed the existence of the 2011 list: http://www.cleverchinacheaters.com/2012/09/are-you-on-teacher-black-list-in-china.html Lost Laowai did a story about the list in 2013 and then it was apparently blocked or deleted here: http://archive.is/hzj8C

Interestingly in this TBJ 2013 post we see that even in China ESL's contract it says a bad teacher will be "blacklisted" and as we all know China ESL is a long-running Chinese agency run by a Mrs. Rebecca Tang: http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2013/01/31/beware-chinaesl-scam-alert-rebecca-tang-will-rip-you#comment-604678 . And here is another post from 2010 with an actual scan of a few pages of the blacklist: http://china.eslteachercafe.com/topic870-teacher-blacklist-china.aspx

And this my friends is WHY we should all want them to keep a REAL list of bad apples: http://www.lostlaowai.com/news/former-beijing-school-teacher-convicted-raping-minor/"

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"In September of 2012 I was approached by a principal of a Beijing High School in Chaoyang asking me if I wanted to "cooperate" with her and make "big money" with her. I met her at an HR seminar held by Mercer about six months earlier and we exchanged cards. Of course I was interested in what she had to propose so we sat down for a cup of coffee at the starbuck in the Landmark Hotel near Liangmaqiao.

She pulled from her purse a 3 ring binder with about one inch of documents inside and she told me to have a look. My written Chinese honestly sucks but I saw page after page of expat names on every page that was tabulated with maybe six or seven columns. It turns out this was the teacher's blacklist that you people are talking about. She wanted me to buy the list from her for 300,000 renminbi! She said that I could sell it to other HR directors in China for the same price and "get rich very soon", but that I would have to give her half of the money.

I asked her to explain all the numbers and marks in all the columns and she said she would only explain the code if I agreed to buy the list and give her a $100 deposit on the spot. But she said that there were nine reasons foreign teachers were put on the list and from what I see here, they are covered by the links that Jolly Roger just gave us.

To cut to the chase, I had a bad feeling in my gut that I was being set up for something, so i made it very clear to her that I was not interested even though my employer was upset that I did not take the offer after I reported it to my CEO (just in case there was some sting involved). He wanted me to go back to the woman and buy a copy. I gave him the card and told him to go for it, but he declined. End of story."

[choudoufu]