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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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 Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: |
| I'm sorry to hear about this. I agree that you should report it to the local labor board. I'd start the call by asking" "How do I file a formal complaint of age discrimination?" That way, you'll be more likely to go through an official process that requires the complaint to be recorded and given due consideration. |
Mitsui, you might want to figure out exactly what the laws are about age discrimination in Japan. From what I understand, there were no laws against age discrimination until fairly recently, and even the new laws allow many loopholes. One of these is that companies are still allowed to discriminate by hiring younger employees "in order to give them the opportunity to develop and improve their occupational abilities over a long period of service". I suppose you could argue that a limited-term contract position doesn't qualify as "a long period of service". Age discrimination is hard to prove though, so you'll also need the dispatch company to testify on your behalf; without them, all the university has to say is that they didn't discriminate and you'll have no way to prove otherwise.
Some reading that might be helpful:
http://www.jil.go.jp/english/events/documents/clls08_sakuraba.pdf
http://eforum.jil.go.jp/english/JLR/documents/2009/JLR22_sakuraba.pdf |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
ELEC does send teachers to other universities and companies.
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mitsui,
Are you eligible for another university teaching position through ELEC or has ELEC written you off completely, telling you that they will not try to find you an other university teaching position due to your age? |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:54 am Post subject: |
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My personal documents which I gave have been destroyed or shredded.
This includes about my bank, visa status, etc. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
My personal documents which I gave have been destroyed or shredded.
This includes about my bank, visa status, etc. |
WOW! ELEC told that they destroyed your application materials after you were rejected?
In effect, this means that ELEC will no longer be considering you for any future university job openings.
That blows me away. All because of your age. Crazy.
This tells me that ELEC is behind the age discrimination also, and that it is not only Kanagawa University staff who objected to your age.
If not, why wouldn't ELEC still be keeping your CV on hand for future university class openings?
Smells like bulllshit to me. |
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jmatt
Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Solar Strength wrote: |
| mitsui wrote: |
My personal documents which I gave have been destroyed or shredded.
This includes about my bank, visa status, etc. |
WOW! ELEC told that they destroyed your application materials after you were rejected?
In effect, this means that ELEC will no longer be considering you for any future university job openings.
That blows me away. All because of your age. Crazy.
This tells me that ELEC is behind the age discrimination also, and that it is not only Kanagawa University staff who objected to your age.
If not, why wouldn't ELEC still be keeping your CV on hand for future university class openings?
Smells like bulllshit to me. |
Yes, it does.
Unless you're in your 70's, I can't imagine that is the only reason. Many of the teachers at ELEC are in their 40's and 50's. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Well I called up the Yokohama labor office and I was told that although it is unusual, it is not illegal.
So much for a developed country.
I guess all I can do is talk to the union representative this week. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
Well I called up the Yokohama labor office and I was told that although it is unusual, it is not illegal.
So much for a developed country.
I guess all I can do is talk to the union representative this week. |
mitsui,
I think it's great that you're doing that. It draws negative attention to ELEC and Kanagawa University for discriminating against applicants due to their age, etc. and should not be tolerated in a democratic and modern society.
I also think many Japanese people would be angered by the way you were treated.
Yeah, definitely submit a report to the local union so that they're aware of ELEC and Kanagawa University discriminating against foreign applicants of a certain age. |
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jmatt
Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Solar Strength wrote: |
| mitsui wrote: |
Well I called up the Yokohama labor office and I was told that although it is unusual, it is not illegal.
So much for a developed country.
I guess all I can do is talk to the union representative this week. |
mitsui,
I think it's great that you're doing that. It draws negative attention to ELEC and Kanagawa University for discriminating against applicants due to their age, etc. and should not be tolerated in a democratic and modern society.
I also think many Japanese people would be angered by the way you were treated.
Yeah, definitely submit a report to the local union so that they're aware of ELEC and Kanagawa University discriminating against foreign applicants of a certain age. |
You know, I agree with you concerning age discrimination, I do...
But..
I have a very hard time believing that ELEC discriminates due to age unless one is truly ancient, and even then...
That's a harsh, even libelous statement to make considering you don't know all the facts.
Because, you don't. As I don't. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| jmatt wrote: |
| That's a harsh, even libelous statement to make considering you don't know all the facts. |
jmatt,
Since you work for ELEC, it's only fair that you not participate in this discussion, unless you can give us the real reason why ELEC rejected mitsui for the Kanagawa University position. |
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jmatt
Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| Solar Strength wrote: |
| jmatt wrote: |
| That's a harsh, even libelous statement to make considering you don't know all the facts. |
jmatt,
Since you work for ELEC, it's only fair that you not participate in this discussion, unless you can give us the real reason why ELEC rejected mitsui for the Kanagawa University position. |
Who knows why? Do you? I'd bet Mitsui doesn't even, really. I mean, even if he is qualified on paper, why does he deserve the job? Who knows what really happened---this is very one-sided.
Maybe the interview didn't go well, or as well as he thought, and maybe he pressed them for a reason, and you know how well that line of reasoning goes in this country.
Or maybe he didn't, and they just straight up said "you're too old" even though they liked him. Hard to believe, but that's possible, considering where we are, though that is not right.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Who knows.. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
I hope to just teach full-time in the fall and teach part-time until then.
Otherwise it means it is time to go back to the US. |
mitsui,
How do you expect to get a full time position in the fall?
You'll just be another year older!
Unless you have already spoken to a school that has expressed interest in hiring you in the fall, I believe you'll still face similar problems getting hired.
I assume you're in your 40s - 50s, since if you were in you're 20s ~ 30s you would likely not be facing age discrimination from people doing the hiring. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:05 am Post subject: |
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I am not making this up. Choose not to believe it then.
Anyone who knows me, knows that I am honest.
Come on. This is just one school.
Not all schools are picky about age.
I am not out of options yet.
Obviously my networking skills could be better, but that is where my wife`s network helps.
I can go back to the US if I have to.
I am 43. At this point probably it is time to think about going back.
I think after 45 I would be stuck in Japan, and with less work available,
that is not a good idea. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
I am not making this up. Choose not to believe it then.
Anyone who knows me, knows that I am honest. |
I believe you!
Because I've seen advertisements on JREC and JACET asking for applicants who are under 35 years of age.
So do you have a full time position arranged for the fall, is that why you're remaining hopeful?
I agree, if you don't have a full time job by the time you're in your 40s, you better get going on accumulating part-time university positions around the Kanto area. And also be prepared to travel a lot each week on the train if you intend to stay in Japan. You'll likely be running all over the place just to make that work. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: |
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I don`t have something for the fall but I am trying to be optimistic.
I applied for work in the US today.
My brother thinks community colleges look like a good bet and he may be right.
I don`t think I want to be just doing part-time jobs just to stay in Japan.
I think before it was easier to get work but these days, no.
Just too many teachers here.
I want to be full-time but at best it would just be a limited contract in Japan.
Probably better for me just to leave and try to get certified to teach high school. Many teachers quit, which means there are jobs, but of course it is real work.
At least the Praxis is available in Tokyo. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
| My brother thinks community colleges look like a good bet and he may be right. |
I agree, that's where I'm hearing there will be opportunities if I were to go back, also.
| mitsui wrote: |
| Just too many teachers here. |
That's right, Japan is saturated with foreign EFL teachers. It's a school's market right now and they can pick and choose to their heart's content based on crazy criteria right down to your eye color, hair color, smile and body weight - forget about academic background, experience and publications. They are in total control.
| mitsui wrote: |
| I want to be full-time but at best it would just be a limited contract in Japan. |
Unfortunately, I think you're right. You'd land a non-renewable contract position at best.
And that's if you were lucky! |
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