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age discrimination
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jmatt



Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decently paid, full time community college ESL jobs in the US in any remotely livable city with the population to support ESL jobs are virtually impossible to come by if you don't have strong local contacts and ties--especially if you didn't get a MA or MEd at a local school. And forget it if you don't have an advanced degree. You may get a class or two, but you wouldn't be able to make a living. No way. And if you could get something without a degree, the pay is a cruel joke. You'd be better off bartending.

A city like Houston may be possible if you have Spanish fluency, but even then without a master's, good luck.
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmatt wrote:
Decently paid, full time community college ESL jobs in the US in any remotely livable city with the population to support ESL jobs are virtually impossible to come by if you don't have strong local contacts and ties--especially if you didn't get a MA or MEd at a local school. And forget it if you don't have an advanced degree. You may get a class or two, but you wouldn't be able to make a living. No way. And if you could get something without a degree, the pay is a cruel joke. You'd be better off bartending.

A city like Houston may be possible if you have Spanish fluency, but even then without a master's, good luck.

For jobs in the US, a relevant MA (TESOL, Applied Linguistics) and university-level teaching experience are definitely necessary. There are jobs out there at IEPs at community colleges and 4-year universities, and these employers do value experience abroad. It's still quite competitive, but so is getting a university job in Japan. Local contacts are helpful, but far from necessary. Pay isn't as good as Japan -- around $35-$45k -- but more than what a bartender typically makes (low $20ks).
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jmatt



Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rtm wrote:
jmatt wrote:
Decently paid, full time community college ESL jobs in the US in any remotely livable city with the population to support ESL jobs are virtually impossible to come by if you don't have strong local contacts and ties--especially if you didn't get a MA or MEd at a local school. And forget it if you don't have an advanced degree. You may get a class or two, but you wouldn't be able to make a living. No way. And if you could get something without a degree, the pay is a cruel joke. You'd be better off bartending.

A city like Houston may be possible if you have Spanish fluency, but even then without a master's, good luck.

For jobs in the US, a relevant MA (TESOL, Applied Linguistics) and university-level teaching experience are definitely necessary. There are jobs out there at IEPs at community colleges and 4-year universities, and these employers do value experience abroad. It's still quite competitive, but so is getting a university job in Japan. Local contacts are helpful, but far from necessary. Pay isn't as good as Japan -- around $35-$45k -- but more than what a bartender typically makes (low $20ks).


That's true, but in places where the market is tight, like Portland, OR, it'd be near impossible to get a job without knowing anyone---unless your qualifications and experience were stellar, and even then, it would be hard. It would be possible in the biggest cities---as I mentioned, Houston, LA or NYC. Houston would be the only one though where the pay would be enough I'd think.

And in a state like Oregon, where service workers get the full minimum wage, unless you work in a dump with no customers, you can make at least 40, if not 50K a year bartending, much of it tax free.
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamatt, NYC is quite competitive and contacts do really seem to help find part-time adjunct jobs. Full time jobs at community colleges in NYC? Ha ha ha! Also, MAs from the more expensive local private universities such as Columbia and NYU are preferred over affordable MAs from public universities such as the City University of NYC.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well for some places I agree. In Hawaii and Washington state, yes.
It is who you know.

Well I could teach at a high school. I have to get certified but I am looking into that for Nevada and Arizona.
Oregon certification is expensive I heard.
In Washington it is 17,000 dollars.

My wife is fluent in English and I saw jobs in Vancouver for Japanese translators so that could be a possibility. Don`t know what I would do if I lived in BC.

Solar Strength, have I met you? Is your spouse in Taiwan?
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flow



Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there is age and gender discrimination in Japan. Females ALWAYS get FIRST priority (qualifications and experience not important to the Japanese employer, and the younger the better) then of course the blue-eyed under thirty guys, next are the ppl in their thirties and anyone over 45 (with or without teaching qualifications/experience - not important in Japan) well it's tough very tough......the EFL market is extremely competitive in Japan even with wages and work conditions not so attractive.
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mitsui,
You should re-post down in the North American forums if you are interested in High School. You DO NOT have to pay so much for certification IF you are willing to do an alternate certification program. There are several such as the NYC Teaching Fellows and a bigger national one called Teach For America. They give you a heavy subsidized Masters degree with certification and a job in exchange for putting in 2 or 3 years at a high needs school.

This could mean anything from special ed emotionally disabled to special ed cognitively disabled to low income to large minority community that needs to learn English, or any combination of the above.

I did nearly 5 years of teaching in NYC, but have been in Japan - this is now my 4th year at a private high school...
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2buckets



Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Middle East

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I taught in a "high need" school for 3 years and was assaulted 5 times and sent to the emergency room in that time period. Then I bought a one way ticket on a cargo ship to Tangier, Morocco and never looked back.

Traveled overland through Asia and eventually made it to Japan and haven't been to an emergency room since.


Last edited by 2buckets on Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Already rejected by Teach for America. My wife refuses to live on the east coast.
I looked into Tennessee but I haven`t taken the Praxis. I think it is available at Temple University in Tokyo.
I may go to Arizona next month for a job fair and to get information. Apparently, Arizona wants to make it easier for new teachers to move there.
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Already rejected by Teach for America. My wife refuses to live on the east coast.
I looked into Tennessee but I haven`t taken the Praxis. I think it is available at Temple University in Tokyo.
I may go to Arizona next month for a job fair and to get information. Apparently, Arizona wants to make it easier for new teachers to move there.

Are you applying to university IEPs? There are still quite a few openings for fall listed on sites like http://careers.tesol.org and http://www.higheredjobs.com .
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, and I get rejected.
Probably since I never taught at an IEP in the US before.
Just got rejected from a school in Idaho, even though my resume was considered excellent. Excellent is not good enough.
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Yes, and I get rejected.
Probably since I never taught at an IEP in the US before.
Just got rejected from a school in Idaho, even though my resume was considered excellent. Excellent is not good enough.

In my experience, previous experience at a US IEP is often not required. Most new hires at the IEP I used to work at were hired from abroad, and without IEP experience (many from Japan).

What I mean to say is that I still think you have a good shot, so keep applying.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well maybe things are changing since I see postings where IEP experience is mandatory at most schools, usually just for a year.
Most places neither reject or accept my application.

So OSU demands at least two years and SIU asks for at least one year.
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