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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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 Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Most of them are told they will study a major that is deemed likely to end in a 'good job', which means well paid, by Chinese standards.
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I didn't want to be a teacher.... wanted to travel by motorcycle round the world...Dad said... if you want to travel and always have a job... choose teaching....best thing is for these children to listen to their parents .. if they had motivation im the first place they would already be studying in their own chosen field....
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| A lot of them have little or no interest in the subject chosen for them, so they find it hard to motivate themselves to do anything other than memorise the information necessary to pass the exam. |
I don't buy it.. if someone is willing to pay for your education ..if a gift of an education is not motivation ..... then I just call them plain "sorry"..... |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| NoBillyNO wrote: |
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| A lot of them have little or no interest in the subject chosen for them, so they find it hard to motivate themselves to do anything other than memorise the information necessary to pass the exam. |
I don't buy it.. if someone is willing to pay for your education ..if a gift of an education is not motivation ..... then I just call them plain "sorry"..... |
Seconded.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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I work colleges and universities, and so far, I haven't encountered standardized tests. The CTs may have then, but I'm free to do as i please.
I'll NEVER submit to a standardized test. It's ruining the American educational system. |
That's debatable. What I’ll say on the topic is that differences/inconsistencies in testing may lead to students behavioral issues. Grades 10-11-12 are close enough not only with respect to age but also the location in schools. Kids talk, compare and look for the level of difficulty in their exams. If a security is the reason for not formally systematizing the students’ evaluation, a confusion and downfall will follow for the quality of testing. Not every teacher is adept in the area of writing books or creating tests which means that flexible students’ assessments may be notably compromised; which then backfires at schools, teachers and affects students. |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| NoBillyNO wrote: |
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Most of them are told they will study a major that is deemed likely to end in a 'good job', which means well paid, by Chinese standards.
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I didn't want to be a teacher.... wanted to travel by motorcycle round the world...Dad said... if you want to travel and always have a job... choose teaching....best thing is for these children to listen to their parents .. if they had motivation im the first place they would already be studying in their own chosen field....
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| A lot of them have little or no interest in the subject chosen for them, so they find it hard to motivate themselves to do anything other than memorise the information necessary to pass the exam. |
I don't buy it.. if someone is willing to pay for your education ..if a gift of an education is not motivation ..... then I just call them plain "sorry"..... |
I would equate the 'gift' of a Chinese university education with the experience of wanting a PS3 and waking up to a ZX81 on Christmas morning. I also wonder how easy it is to see yet another four years of Chinese education after the first 13 to 15 years of it as a 'gift'. It's easy to judge from the perspective of a western education in which choice and a decent standard of education can often be taken for granted.
I would also challenge the notion that they are children, certainly university students. Granted, a lot of them act more like children than young adults, but I think that may be down to too much 'listening to their parents' and not enough of being encouraged to think and choose for themselves. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:34 am Post subject: |
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It's easy to judge from the perspective of a western education in which choice and a decent standard of education can often be taken for granted.
I would also challenge the notion that they are children, certainly university students. Granted, a lot of them act more like children than young adults, but I think that may be down to too much 'listening to their parents' and not enough of being encouraged to think and choose for themselves. |
1st you have no idea what standard of education I attended... wasn't as good as you might think.... and it was not decent....and due to the financial status of my family, it was never taken for granted....going to college on the GI bill I unloaded 4 or 5 tractor package cars at UPS every morning before I hit the classroom dirty and covered with black slim offa the boxes....
I was still perceived as young when I joined the Army (with parent permission as father being ill, there was little money in the household), and listening to their parents is what a child is suppose to do.....after all if they are as immature as you state, then they need parental guidance....i can't fathom that you think the current state of students in Western Centric type Universities and high schools, thinking for them selves are making better choices.....every go to spring break...I have and not for the relaxation..but rather to party with nubiles ..or that a FT would know better than participants of a culture where education is certainly the key to the doorway of careers....and blaming parents for seeking to guide their off-springs seems like pandering to the common notion that it is never the child fault and this is not a good way to build character.
NOPE, some of the kids are just plain sorry. And "sorry" kids end up flipping burgers....or going back home to work in their families biz....check out some of the kids that are on scholarships paid for by the gov.....ethnic kids who have one chance to succeed and bring their parents some hope of a future....
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| I would equate the 'gift' of a Chinese university education with the experience of wanting a PS3 and waking up to a ZX81 on Christmas morning. |
This pretty much explains it, waking up to anything on Christmas is a god send and gifts are not to be expected but rather appreciated.... most as far as I can see deserve a lump of coal.....now what I wonder is why you want to perpetuate this idea of entitlement....or perhaps your just use to the idea that achievements are not necessary and by your example it would seem that you have lived a privileged life and perhaps you can identify with these "no counts" better than I can, but the fact still remains .. if you view education bought and paid for in the same light as receiving a gift that does not live up to your expectations... then me thinks we have found the problem.
Last edited by NoBillyNO on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:46 am; edited 3 times in total |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| check out some of the kids that are on scholarships paid for by the gov.....ethnic kids who have one chance to succeed and bring their parents some hope of a future.... |
This is what I was thinking of as well…in addition to students such as the "shifan" kids who are academically a step (or more) behind their cohorts at Beijing Normal University, but still get to attend Beishida, one of the best universities in the country, on scholarship because they have promised to take a teaching job for X number of years after graduation.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| yeah my hat is off to these kids.. and no quarter given to the whining chosen few who parents spend their hard earned while they can go about crying how unfair it is that their parents to make a choice for them trying to secure a future....let them wallow in self pity and wear their fingers to the bone playing mindless games..... |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| Edited for the sake of brevity... then me thinks we have found the problem. |
What problem? I don't have a problem, you seem to have the problem. I'm sorry if your own experience has coloured your experience and made your posts and view of people so angry and bitter, but that's not my problem. You come across as one of those people who seem to believe that you are a template for the rest of the world. You're not. Your opinions and experiences are irrelevant to anyone but yourself. Of course, you're entitled to have and express them, unlike many of the students I teach. They have very few choices, and for that I have sympathy with them. I too had a hard and very damaging upbringing, as the child of alcoholic parents who drank away any money that might otherwise have brought happiness to their children. I choose to follow a different path from my parents however, and so I try to understand, rather than criticise and condemn, other people. A statement like 'some of the kids are just plain sorry' tells me everything I need to know about your feelings on the subject. Criticism and condemnation are easy, too easy for me. Understanding and nurturing are harder, but in my experience, much more rewarding in the long run. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| What problem? I don't have a problem, you seem to have the problem. |
Good to know your without problems...hope we can all be someday....
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| You come across as one of those people who seem to believe that you are a template for the rest of the world |
Why do you say such things.........because I called B.S. on your pity party....
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| Your opinions and experiences are irrelevant to anyone but yourself. |
That is a broad statement.... because you decree it.. Sounds like you share some of that entitlement that your students do.
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| They have very few choices, and for that I have sympathy with them. |
They have an opportunity to go to school, which many do not....if you choose to have sympathy then by all means bust it out.... for the poor little Chinese kids who get a chance for education and are too thick to realize the opportunity they have.....
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I too had a hard and very damaging upbringing, as the child of alcoholic parents who drank away any money that might otherwise have brought happiness to their children. |
So let me get this ....you feel sorry for those children who waste benefits that you yourself had little opportunity to enjoy due to parents that hit the sauce to often?
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| I choose to follow a different path from my parents however, and so I try to understand, rather than criticize and condemn, other people. |
Doing a good job of dis'n' me.... so where is that path you are following?
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| A statement like 'some of the kids are just plain sorry' tells me everything I need to know about your feelings on the subject. |
Yes it should..., and this statement .....What does that say about your feelings of gratitude?
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I would equate the 'gift' of a Chinese university education with the experience of wanting a PS3 and waking up to a ZX81 on Christmas morning. |
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Criticism and condemnation are easy, too easy for me. |
Yep, they seem to be.....
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| Understanding and nurturing are harder, but in my experience, much more rewarding in the long run. |
Then by all means follow that path that is rewarding....but somehow you have put yourself above the parents ..... how understanding is that... and how exactly are you nurturing students who are not dedicated to getting a education while their parents are paying the cost? Is nurturing is one of those words folk like to use to show they are encouraging to those around them.
so what are you encouraging these young freeloaders....to do... hey anyone remember "Freddie the Freeloader"....
Just one question, if you feel this strongly, strongly enough to confront me on this chat board, anomalously..... if you really are following compassion...just tell me how many parents you hve confronted and advised to allow their children to choose whither or not they want to go to school.... how many students have you counseled to just go home and tell their parents they don't want the education offered them....if you have the convection you spoke of ..... let us know .. How many?
I failed half my class last year....tht should give you a window into my compassion......if they don't wanna go.. I help them with a low mark and failure.....do I feel sorry for their sorry self..... yeah sure.. sorry they were born so thick not to see advantages when it is shove down their throat.... |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| I too had a hard and very damaging upbringing, |
doogsville, i never said I had a "hard and very damaging upbringing"...on the contrary. .... I learned to work....play and achieve..... poor or sick parents doesn't mean that they child cant have a good life.....in fact I likely formed my opinions watching poor folk slave aways in Iron mills and farms....the children of those mill wright workers and croppers....often became somebody from the insistence of their Paw and Ma..... |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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The sorry ones are, in my humble opinion, the parents and schools, when student behavior is the issue. Kids are reflections of their parents and schools. It is reasonable to fail students who deserve to fail, when the administration of the academic program and assessments is appropriate, and when students know why they have failed.
To rectify students’ behavior is sometimes impossible and only patience works. Troublemakers and/or the lost souls have to mature, before they realize what to do or not. Haven’t we been bad in schools? I have; took me pretty long to realize that I should not get high while studying and I should not have sex on the books so often. I really don’t think kids here have the same “opportunities”, so clearly they are stressed for different reasons than we were. Sorry (me too), I should speak for myself only. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| I have; took me pretty long to realize that I should not get high while studying |
It just seem'd a long time.....you were stoned! |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| NoBillyNO wrote: |
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| I have; took me pretty long to realize that I should not get high while studying |
It just seem'd a long time.....you were stoned! |
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