|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
grayskies
Joined: 03 Dec 2013
Posts: 67
|
 Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
As I have read posts of this forum over the years, I noticed the same posters that chime in together and bully a fellow poster they do not agree with.
VS comments:
| Quote: |
| Your comments about slapping these kids with Advanced Level materials whether they are even close to ready or not sounds like student abuse to me. |
Seriously? As an instructor, you don't think I (and others) know how to ease learning outcomes within the lessons? We (colleagues) have learned how to integrate reading/writing and even grammar within our one hour and 50 minute class.
After all, even TOEFL exams were eventually changed to satisfy grumbling professors at universities across the States.
Some seem to think, their experience makes them an authority. It doesn't.
I have been taught how to teach Academic English in a one year IEP unit. It was the best time of my entire career. It was a learning experience.
The students came out of our department after one year, with reading, listening, speaking and above all, writing skills, including research using APA.
They had the skills (not proficiency) to compete in academics.
Enough said. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mashkif
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 178
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| grayskies wrote: |
| Students will grapple with anything that is new to them. This is said, for all students worldwide. The problem we face in the Gulf. is that these same students will complain when a lesson is deemed too difficult. As a result, the entire program, including English Composition 101 gets water-downed. |
[...]The vast majority of my first semester students had no concept of capital letters, that spelling matters, or even the vaguest concept of English punctuation. As I said... they couldn't write one grammatical one-clause sentence. So you are of the impression that all those students over the 15 years were faking it? 
VS |
And why can't such students be taught syntax, spelling, punctuation, capitalization, etc. concurrently with principles of academic writing? Why do they "have to" learn the basics on silly contrived sentences about their daily routine and their last summer vacation instead of on a more academic topic? Why do they have to learn a five-paragraph essay structure on personal experience topics in lieu of something more academically oriented? Why can they not learn referencing at the same time as they learn paragraphing? Why can they not be taught ab initio that "I," "you," "we," contractions, and opinions have NO PLACE in an academic paper concomitantly with being taught about run-ons and fragments?
WHY DO I GET STUDENTS FROM FOUNDATION WHOSE IDEA OF AN ESSAY IS:
* Introduction: I (dis)agree with X.
* Body: Reason 1, Reason 2, Reason 3.
* Conclusion: Finally, I (dis)agree with X and suggest to everyone that they ...
???
I then have to spend at least a half semester unteaching that bullcrap and invariably battle with them for the rest of the semester to avoid such unacademic elements.
I suspect a large part of the reason is that many T.E.F.L. teachers themselves do not know what academic writing is. Another part is that - as grayskies correctly noted - the materials used are woefully inadequate. Headway, Cutting Edge (or whatever they're called) teaches students how to write postcards to their penpals, not research papers![/i] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
grayskies
Joined: 03 Dec 2013
Posts: 67
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mashkif,
I sincerely hope that one day, one day (sigh), I will have the opportunity to work with you.
I want to learn from your experience and education.
Thank you- on so many levels! ha ha |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I am suspicious of any teacher who writes of "learning outcomes". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
grayskies
Joined: 03 Dec 2013
Posts: 67
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have to laugh, because I was really pissed off by some posters. And I couldn't think of anything at the time, but 'learner outcomes'! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Language used by administrators and managers - not practitioners of the Craft ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear scot47,
Which craft (Or should that be one word?). 
Regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mashkif wrote: |
| I suspect a large part of the reason is that many T.E.F.L. teachers themselves do not know what academic writing is. Another part is that - as grayskies correctly noted - the materials used are woefully inadequate. Headway, Cutting Edge (or whatever they're called) teaches students how to write postcards to their penpals, not research papers![/i] |
And some of us do. Fortunately I never once used the mentioned textbooks because IMHO they were useless (the most polite adjective I can think of).
And no... you can't teach them everything at once.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| (Bump) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
siologen
Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: re: confounded terms! |
|
|
| Quote: |
I am suspicious of any teacher who writes of "learning outcomes". |
good post jock!!!
Another term that gets my back up is "classroom management", something that manages to sound arcane but also business like. Just me mind, others may differ. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To stay on topic...
| The OP wrote: |
| Would any preference be given to native English speakers that also speak Arabic? Obviously, one would have to be qualified for the job, but all things being equal, does one who speaks Arabic have a leg up? Or is it that essentially an irrelevant consideration for employers in Saudi? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
