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alanportland
Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 16
Location: Worthing- England
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 Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: What can you be flogged for in KSA? |
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Hi all,
My mate - river nile- is camping in the Lake District at the moment, he started to tell me a lot about the - magic kingdom- in order to get poor old Alan ready for life in Saudi. so my only source is away for at least a month or more.
Regardless of what or how much I know about Sharia law, I found it incredibly confusing when I read in the news that an actress might be flogged for greeting an actor in ( French style ). river nile told me that Arabs use the same way to greet each other, so whats the difference?
Just to clarify I am not going to do anything stupid that could get me in trouble in Saudi but I need to know more as I might not be able to meet or bump into river nile again. I've done my search on the internet but still need more info. .
cheers,
Al
link to the news on the Iranian actress incident.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/10850212/Iranian-actress-Leila-Hatami-faces-public-flogging.html |
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Rostom
Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 102
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: What can you be flogged for in KSA? |
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| alanportland wrote: |
Hi all,
Regardless of what or how much I know about Sharia law, I found it incredibly confusing when I read in the news that an actress might be flogged for greeting an actor in ( French style ). river nile told me that Arabs use the same way to greet each other, so whats the difference? |
Well, Alan, the difference is who is kissing who?
In the Arab/Islamic culture it is normal that a man kiss another man (cheek kissing), but this kissing is not allowed between a man and a woman - even thought in some liberal countries like Egypt and Lebanon you might see a man kissing a woman (family/friendship relation).
In the Magic Kingdom, if a man is caught kissing a women he will get 99 lashes plus at least 4 months jail, and if he is an expat he will be deported in the first available flight after finishing his sentence.
Even a husband cannot kiss his wife in public, and this is valid in most Arab/Islamic countries.
Saudi Arabian Man Gets Lashes, Jail Time For Kissing Woman In Mall
"RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — A Saudi court convicted a man and sentenced him to four months in prison and 90 lashes for kissing a woman in a mall, a government-owned daily reported Thursday."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/10/saudi-arabian-man-gets-la_n_607520.html |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: What can you be flogged for in KSA? |
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| alanportland wrote: |
Regardless of what or how much I know about Sharia law, I found it incredibly confusing when I read in the news that an actress might be flogged for greeting an actor in ( French style ). river nile told me that Arabs use the same way to greet each other, so whats the difference?
Just to clarify I am not going to do anything stupid that could get me in trouble in Saudi but I need to know more as I might not be able to meet or bump into river nile again. I've done my search on the internet but still need more info. |
The offense was very clear. From that linked article: "Iran’s Islamic rules stipulate that a man and a woman who are unrelated cannot embrace in public. Moreover a woman should not have her hair on display. The actress had a scarf around her neck but had not covered the crown of her head." It didn't matter that the man she kissed is 83 years old.
Ditto for the Kingdom, which has a strict gender segregation law that prohibits members of the opposite sex from mixing unless related by marriage or blood (family). I suggest you take a look at the following Saudi travel advice (https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/saudi-arabia/local-laws-and-customs). Other more useful info can be easily found via an Internet search using expat living saudi laws |
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alanportland
Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 16
Location: Worthing- England
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to this part of the world---to a whole different kind of reality. Anyway, you shouldn't have any problems in the Kingdom unless you're a kissing bandito.  |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| As a Westerner, I don't think you need to be really worried about floggings. although in all seriousness I wouldn't exactly test the issue either. The law of the land appears to prefer jail time and deportation for offenses committed by Westerners. Flogging is for Muslims native to the area, or unfortunately for people who come from countries where nobody cares to pay attention to what happens to them. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
| As a Westerner, I don't think you need to be really worried about floggings. although in all seriousness I wouldn't exactly test the issue either. The law of the land appears to prefer jail time and deportation for offenses committed by Westerners. Flogging is for Muslims native to the area, or unfortunately for people who come from countries where nobody cares to pay attention to what happens to them. |
I think everybody should be concerned about floggings and other barbaric practices. These are the reasons why I will never work there as by doing so I would feel that I was tacitly supporting them. |
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Rostom
Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 102
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| alanportland wrote: |
| Thanks a lot rostom for the explanation. It is still confusing as the peck on the cheek happened in France and she is facing prosecution and calls to flog her when she comes back to Iran. |
Well, Alan, the fatwa from Iran does not have a border whether the concerned is inside or outside the country of Iran.
Do you remember the Satanic Verses of Salman Rushdie's fourth novel in the 80s? His novel was published in UK, but Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for Rushdie's death - Even thought Rushdie is not an Iranian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses
As for the Magic Kingdom, as far as your kissing is outside the country, and in the Hyde park then don't worry, Uncle Bandar will not issue a fatwa against you!  |
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alanportland
Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 16
Location: Worthing- England
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Rostom wrote: |
as far as your kissing is outside the country, and in the Hyde park then don't worry |
Blimey! How do u know about that?
As for Rushdi, I think it it is a different take ( that doesn't mean I agree with what was issued against him ) .
Ta |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| She won't be flogged. |
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2buckets
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I was threatened with flogging for "insulting" a Pakistani laborer's beard.
The laborer was mopping a floor with a deteriorated mop that only had a few strands on it. I commented to one of my brighter students that we could do a better job if we held the laborer by the ankles and used his beard as a mop. Well a typically stupid matawah student, who only knew two words of English, they being "beard" and "mop" immediately reported the incident to the administration. I was called in and told about the importance of "the beard" in Islam, the prophet having a beard etc. and that "insulting the beard" was a flogging offence.
I said it was a misunderstanding, and amazingly my bright student backed me up, so I avoided the lashes.
Lashes given to western foreigners are typically given with gentle strokes of a pencil. A symbolic gesture for minor offences. |
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Rostom
Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 102
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| 2buckets wrote: |
| Lashes given to western foreigners are typically given with gentle strokes of a pencil. A symbolic gesture for minor offences. |
... and they will allow you to wear a thick leather jacket, so that you will feel the gentle strokes of a pencil like a massage in Thailand!
C'mon, seriously speaking, beard in the Magic Kingdom is one of the red lines which you do not play with.
If you do, then I think you get violent reactions from the Saudis, and you might end up in the black box and deportation.
A Saudi woman who tweeted bad things about beards, check how her action was received in the Magic Kingdom:
A Saudi Woman is Threatened After Tweeting About Beards
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2014/02/a-saudi-woman-tweets-about-beards-and-is-threatened.html
Be careful, do not cross the 7 red lines of the Magic Kingdom! |
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jaffa
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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What can you be flogged for?
- having fun
- enjoying life
- being honest
- being positive
The list is endless. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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2buckets, seriously, how do you go about mocking beards here? Are you saying that you did not have any inkling that beards have some religious significance in this country or in Islam? I find that hard to believe.
OK, to answer the OP, you can be flogged here for many offenses:
- alcohol
- drugs
- harassing women
- spousal abuse
- disobedience to parents
- illegal sexual relations
- mocking Islam
- mocking the country's rulers
- mocking religious scholars
And perhaps a few other related offenses.
You are not coming here to commit any of those things, are you? Alcohol, ok, well if you live on a compound, you can do as you wish. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| AND for asking impertinent questions on an internet forum and thereby insulting the Faith ! |
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