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eslteacher2014
Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 66
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 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Yasuke wrote: |
That's interesting. Could you explain what a typical class would be like for you. When you say a baby sitter, it sounds like you are just asking to be quite for 90 minutes. |
Sure
Where I work, the management really cares about presentation. When they walk past our class (1-3 times a week). All they care about is if our students are all sitting up straight and ACTING like there learning. So they put these unrealistic expectations on us. Then to make it worse our Saudi students who don't care about learning English start acting up and all they want to do is kick back, play on their phones ect.
So one can imagine the conflict that exists between management and our students.
I am not saying I have a bad job or anything. However this is how I and some of my co-workers feel. |
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Yasuke
Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| eslteacher2014 wrote: |
| Yasuke wrote: |
That's interesting. Could you explain what a typical class would be like for you. When you say a baby sitter, it sounds like you are just asking to be quite for 90 minutes. |
Sure
Where I work, the management really cares about presentation. When they walk past our class (1-3 times a week). All they care about is if our students are all sitting up straight and ACTING like there learning. So they put these unrealistic expectations on us. Then to make it worse our Saudi students who don't care about learning English start acting up and all they want to do is kick back, play on their phones ect.
So one can imagine the conflict that exists between management and our students.
I am not saying I have a bad job or anything. However this is how I and some of my co-workers feel. |
OK, I can see the conflict. How exactly would management like you to deal with that situation. For lack of a better term, how do they coach you for success?
Im sure that the management is aware of the situation. |
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Rostom
Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 102
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Yasuke wrote: |
How exactly would management like you to deal with that situation. For lack of a better term, how do they coach you for success?
Im sure that the management is aware of the situation. |
I think in the Magic Kingdom, it is the management who need to be coached on how to coach teachers for success.
Saudi students need discipline, not baby sitting, if a teacher has a weak personality, then the students will not respect him. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Rostom wrote: |
| Yasuke wrote: |
How exactly would management like you to deal with that situation. For lack of a better term, how do they coach you for success?
Im sure that the management is aware of the situation. |
I think in the Magic Kingdom, it is the management who need to be coached on how to coach teachers for success.
Saudi students need discipline, not baby sitting, if a teacher has a weak personality, then the students will not respect him. |
Not to mention teachers who lack the proper skills/experience. |
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Rostom
Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 102
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Rostom wrote: |
| Yasuke wrote: |
How exactly would management like you to deal with that situation. For lack of a better term, how do they coach you for success?
Im sure that the management is aware of the situation. |
I think in the Magic Kingdom, it is the management who need to be coached on how to coach teachers for success.
Saudi students need discipline, not baby sitting, if a teacher has a weak personality, then the students will not respect him. |
Not to mention teachers who lack the proper skills/experience. |
I agree.
But the management bear a share of responsibility on recruiting unskilled teachers?
I think the management also need to be coached on how to recruit good and experienced teachers. |
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sicklyman
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Rostom wrote: |
| Saudi students need discipline, not baby sitting, if a teacher has a weak personality, then the students will not respect him. |
did you misspell warm as weak? I hope so.
I notice that the teachers who are respected and get the most out of students where I work are those who are warm, friendly and respectful to students. |
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Rostom
Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 102
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| sicklyman wrote: |
| Rostom wrote: |
| Saudi students need discipline, not baby sitting, if a teacher has a weak personality, then the students will not respect him. |
did you misspell warm as weak? I hope so.
I notice that the teachers who are respected and get the most out of students where I work are those who are warm, friendly and respectful to students. |
What do you mean by "warm"?
Gentle? Friendly? Generous in his marking?
What about a teacher who is friendly, 'warm', but not competent? Do you think serious students will respect him (academically)?
I know some teachers who cover their 'weakness/incompetence' by giving high marks to please their students. Do you accept this practice? |
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joleen7
Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:58 am Post subject: Saudi students at PYP in PNU |
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For myself, I can only say that my students are the worst I have ever tried to teach in my entire career and although I researched things quite thoroughly online before I went to KSA,I am astounded at how ghastly most of the girls are.I understand the reasons for their behaviour, but that doesn't make them any more pleasant.
After 8 months in PNU PYP, my approach is to safeguard my own mental and physical health, and if the students pick up any English in the meantime, so be it..as others have commented here, most of them pass anyway so not much of it matters.
For me, the saddest part of all is what I am willing to do for money. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Saudi students at PYP in PNU |
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| joleen7 wrote: |
| For myself, I can only say that my students are the worst I have ever tried to teach in my entire career and although I researched things quite thoroughly online before I went to KSA,I am astounded at how ghastly most of the girls are. I understand the reasons for their behaviour, but that doesn't make them any more pleasant. |
There's a big difference between teaching humanities students and science/medical-track students. The latter finished at the top of their high school and tend to be more focused, studious, and willing to learn, which makes them pleasant to teach. I never taught at PNU, but if you're ever offered the opportunity to teach science students, go for it. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| The female students in Aramco are also a pleasure to teach. The so-called "Special Programme" prepares Saudi females for college studies in the USA. Remarkable. |
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Yasuke
Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Saudi students at PYP in PNU |
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| joleen7 wrote: |
After 8 months in PNU PYP, my approach is to safeguard my own mental and physical health, and if the students pick up any English in the meantime, so be it. |
That is pretty amazing for you to feel that way. Are the girls mentally and physically abusive? |
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CANDLES
Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 605
Location: Wandering aimlessly.....
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Some PNU students are 'princesses', some are there to socialise, a few are there to learn.
They are not university material because they have just come out of schools and this is their first taste of 'freedom'. They have no discipline, or understanding of how to study, because in schools teaching is done by rote system: copy what the teacher writes and regurgitate what she says. They have no skills in exam preparation because they know that irrespective of whether they study or not they will 'pass'.
Students then expect the same way of life at the university and if things do not work their way complain to the Dean (who seems to have an open door policy for them, but not the staff???).
Until the 'powers to be' actually understand the problem, there is no solution and teachers will become sick, frustrated and eventually leave, but unfortunately more bodies will arrive from the West and it will carry on the same way.
Too much 'tribalism' and not enough thirst for knowledge! |
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Yasuke
Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| CANDLES wrote: |
Until the 'powers to be' actually understand the problem, there is no solution and teachers will become sick, frustrated and eventually leave, but unfortunately more bodies will arrive from the West and it will carry on the same way.
Too much 'tribalism' and not enough thirst for knowledge! |
Thanks for the informative response.
As an outsider, but someone who is interested in institutions, my first thought was that the powers that be must know what is going on. Again, I have no first hand knowledge, but from looking at this board, I see the same story in many different forms.
My question is: are they willfully ignorant of this situation? Or, are they truly in dark about what is going on? I've seen my fair share of willful ignorance in cultures that would much rather sweep things under the rug than try and buck a system that has been in place forever.
So my final question to you is, how is one able to maintain their principles as an educator and exist in the environment you are in?
I imagine there is no easy answer, but any insight you be greatly appreciated. Also, if you could highlight the your strategies for minimizing conflict with management as the charade plays out. |
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CANDLES
Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 605
Location: Wandering aimlessly.....
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're either writing a book or are in the middle of a thesis!
Tribalism means 'pecking order' in KSA (or anywhere else in the Middle East). The 'powers to be' are well aware of these problems, but until the HEAD HONCHO tells them to rectify this problem, they will ONLY do 'lip service'.
So if my student's father is a Minister or such like, the Dean would have to have a Prince or a higher Minister for a father to implement the new regime.
Of course there are really motivated, talented students about, but far between. Most are dross!
Make as much money as possible and then get out.  |
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Yasuke
Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| CANDLES wrote: |
I think you're either writing a book or are in the middle of a thesis!
Tribalism means 'pecking order' in KSA (or anywhere else in the Middle East). The 'powers to be' are well aware of these problems, but until the HEAD HONCHO tells them to rectify this problem, they will ONLY do 'lip service'.
So if my student's father is a Minister or such like, the Dean would have to have a Prince or a higher Minister for a father to implement the new regime.
Of course there are really motivated, talented students about, but far between. Most are dross!
Make as much money as possible and then get out. |
Thanks Candles |
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