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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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 Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:23 am Post subject: |
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People everywhere pull scams. It's not a Chinese thing.
However I hold the OP responsible for not having a work visa. You have a responsibility to know what visa you should be working on. It's not really rocket science, you are coming here to work.... work visa  |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
| What he means is, Chinese are more likely to scam than other people, and it's true. |
Wow, racist much? |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
What he means is, Chinese are more likely to scam than other people, and it's true.
Not from the local area? Take you on a long route in a cab.
Not from the local area? Price of bananas just doubled.
Tell you a lie to make you do something that puts you in trouble? Deny all blame. |
wow! You should be working for the UN, or maybe Wikipedia. With your encyclopaedic knowledge of the people of every country in the world you could make a fortune. You must also be quite old since you've managed to visit every country in the world and learned everything about their culture and behaviour to the point where you can decide exactly who is more likely to do what. I'm surprised you even have the time to make racist posts on boards like this! |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
What he means is, Chinese are more likely to scam than other people, and it's true.
Not from the local area? Take you on a long route in a cab.
Not from the local area? Price of bananas just doubled.
Tell you a lie to make you do something that puts you in trouble? Deny all blame. |
Ridiculous |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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It's almost certainly true compared to where he comes from at least- I don't know about any other countries outside of America/China though. But I agree with someone else that said that the Chinese in general, are horrible at it. I make it a point to show them how much business they just lost whenever they try pulling this crap with me.
It's like ....dude, you've seen me walking down the street for months now...what the hell makes you think I'm going to spend 20 rmb on 2 bananas? It's unfortunate because I have to go out my way for a lot of things now. But I'll always greet them with a "hello" whenever I'm holding a bag of something that the person sells in their store to remind them of their own stupidity.
And yes, obviously this occurs in America. But 'gun to your head' and you had to pick one over the other in terms of frequency, of course it is China. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Larry's got it right.
I was thinking whether my comment was really true, but then I remembered my very first taxi in Xi'an cheated me 200 RMB on a 20 RMB fare.
Then today travelling to a new office site with my wife, she sees the ,meter finished at 14, add one for fuel, 15. I give him 20, she gets out. Then I say to her 'I'm waiting for my 5 change.' She asks how much, he says 20. She asks for the fapio. Whoops, he hands over 5 with that 'Damn you for not letting me cheat' face.
My wife has been to 22 countries, for travel, work etc. and even she admits the Chinese level of cheating is more obvious and common than any other country she's been too. |
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Juice
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:36 am Post subject: China Cheaters Are Clever And Too Many! |
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| I will be very direct and to the point... Cheating foreigners has become the national sport of China. It replaced ping pong at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The Chinese definition of the word "clever" is ripping off a foreigner without the expat even knowing he was had. |
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dlecorchick
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:56 am Post subject: |
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An old-timer from Kentucky always said there is two sides to the bologna no matter how thick you cut it...
In the spirit of that I will share some of my experience this past year in China.
One side:
My dealings with management and business men and women here have been some of the most unpleasant encounters. Very dishonest, sneaky (kind of), and usually trying to run some other hustle... I used to get really angry at the street vendors and cabbies when they would pull this stuff but after learning a lot about their culture etc... this past year I usually walk away feeling really sad that they depend on that form of "business practice" to survive. It has to be a pretty unfulfilling life for the people who are looking to get over on someone.
School administrators and the such are very dishonest even about the most meaningless things. It seemed that anytime they could say "no" it was very pleasing to them. 
The other side:
I have made some wonderful Chinese friends. Very helpful and always asking for ways to make my life more comfortable here. On a few occasions, while lost in the city, I would ask some college aged Chinese people for help and they stopped what they were doing and took me directly to where I needed to be. Acts of kindness from my friends and younger (college aged) people here are very common.
Ok. So there is a pattern here. My dealings professional have been horrible and sad, however personal experiences here have been very fulfilling.
Hope that can help someone, sometime... |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:02 am Post subject: Re: China Cheaters Are Clever And Too Many! |
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| Juice wrote: |
| I will be very direct and to the point... Cheating foreigners has become the national sport of China. It replaced ping pong at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The Chinese definition of the word "clever" is ripping off a foreigner without the expat even knowing he was had. |
Cheating foreigners is a characteristic of the ESL industry in general, and it's less about the particular people involved and more about the fact that there's almost no regulation in this business, so people have nothing to fear by trying to scam others. And constantly chirping that cheating and lying is only a big problem in China is simply not true. Start reading other country sections of this forum if you don't believe it. Same *beep* different pile. |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:48 am Post subject: |
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How about taking taxis with women drivers at night? Is it just me or will 90 percent of women try to ridiculously overcharge you? I refuse to get into a taxi with a woman now.
Last edited by Larry Legend on Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:57 am Post subject: |
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"An old-timer from Kentucky always said there is two sides to the bologna no matter how thick you cut it..."
Always 2 sides ..yes...How thick the Chinese side is the question here though. I'm sure it varies depending on where you are in China but based on all of my countless and tiring experiences, the China's side to that bologna is considerably larger. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Except Alien Abductee, if you pull that stuff in most non Asian countries, let's take the UK for example, I would sue the crap out of the school.
If I had an ESL job in the UK and the contract stated paid on the last day of the month, this much money, and single housing, and I was paid 15 days late, and given shared housing, how is the court going to find?
I could do that here in China. Oh wait I couldn't because foreigners aren't even allowed into court to represent themselves, you have to find a lawyer, who'll over charge you, then pay him alot to get you what you are owed.
Oh but wait, you can go the PSB I hear, oh wait no you can't becausethey'll just use it as an excuse to call the school and see i fthey can get a hong bao out of it. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
Except Alien Abductee, if you pull that stuff in most non Asian countries, let's take the UK for example, I would sue the crap out of the school.
If I had an ESL job in the UK and the contract stated paid on the last day of the month, this much money, and single housing, and I was paid 15 days late, and given shared housing, how is the court going to find?
I could do that here in China. Oh wait I couldn't because foreigners aren't even allowed into court to represent themselves, you have to find a lawyer, who'll over charge you, then pay him alot to get you what you are owed.
Oh but wait, you can go the PSB I hear, oh wait no you can't becausethey'll just use it as an excuse to call the school and see i fthey can get a hong bao out of it. |
This is what makes China so charming, right?
Wait. No it isn't.
I don't think China is any worse than any other country. The long-way-around cab ride is common anywhere someone is a visitor. It's worse when you don't speak the local language. It's equally bad in places like New York where the cab drivers have been driving for two weeks and their English is nearly nonexistent.
I have to admit that purchasing things in china (even in department stores) is trying. I admired a Panasonic vacuum cleaner in a store one day. It was 235 rmb. The next day, it was 550 rmb. Clothing that's on sale suddenly cost MSRP sometimes.
I told a salesman once that I'd be back to buy a laptop the next day when I had the cash. I returned, and guess what? The laptop doubled in price. Yesterday's price was a special. I walked out and returned after lunch. The price was the same as yesterday's, and the ripoff artist, er, salesman, wasn't there. I got it for the original price with Windows installed! I even got a mouse and a power supply! They even threw in the battery for free! It even continued to work for several years!
Those who have had bad experiences with recruiters (the topic of the thread) can take heart. One has an equal chance of being fleeced by an employer, even if you apply directly to the schoool and take the contract home to consider. The contract that you consider may not be the same one you sign! This is true not only of private schools, but of public schools as well.
Let's not tar China with the same brush that we tar other countries. Let's use a different brush. There are subtle distinctions among the ripoff methods of different countries. |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
Except Alien Abductee, if you pull that stuff in most non Asian countries, let's take the UK for example, I would sue the crap out of the school.
If I had an ESL job in the UK and the contract stated paid on the last day of the month, this much money, and single housing, and I was paid 15 days late, and given shared housing, how is the court going to find?
Oh but wait, you can go the PSB I hear, oh wait no you can't becausethey'll just use it as an excuse to call the school and see i fthey can get a hong bao out of it. |
I don't know how many foreign ESL teachers the UK hires every year but I'm guessing the number is pretty low to non-existent. I'll grant you that foreign, educated professionals working in the UK are probably treated fairly well, know their rights, and suffer few problems. Even borderline incompetent employers probably know better than to try screw these people over. But not every foreign worker in the UK, US, Canada, etc is an educated, well-informed professional, there are millions of foreign workers who are routinely lied to and cheated in these countries (agricultural, manual labor, domestic care workers). These people generally have low education, are never informed of their rights, and have families back home that depend on their earnings, so they're less likely to make waves and report an abusive employer. They put up with the same crap (even worse) that we find so deplorable when it happens to foreigners in China, intimidation, illegal recruiting fees, several people crowded into one flat, denied health care, wage theft, passports held back. Some people on here might be able to delude themselves that this never happens in their own backyard but I'm under no such illusions. We like to think we have the moral high ground all the time but lok a bit closer and you'll see the hypocrisy. And don't try telling me employers in the developed countries don't abuse foreign workers and if they do they're always caught and punished. It's simply not true, google "temporary foreign worker abuse [insert country here]" and inform yourself.
| LarssonCrew wrote: |
| I could do that here in China. Oh wait I couldn't because foreigners aren't even allowed into court to represent themselves, you have to find a lawyer, who'll over charge you, then pay him alot to get you what you are owed. |
Most foreign teachers won't go to court for damages because the time and effort isn't worth it for a month or two of salary. This isn't unlike any other country. Second, representing yourself in a Chinese court sounds like a very bad idea. Why would you even suggest such a thing? And finally, why complain about Chinese lawyers wanting to make a living and be paid? They don't work for free as far as I know, and if they overcharge you, well hello, we're talking about a profession that's at or near the bottom of the list when it comes to trust and respect. Maybe the legal profession is still respected in China so they're not seen in the same bad light.
In the end there isn't much difference between a cheating, lying recruiter or employer in England, China, or the US or anywhere else. They're all dishonest slugs that'll say or do anything to make money. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Well, fact is it is hard for us to compare with our home countries. Have you ever met an immigrant to your home country who teaches a foreign language and has little to know knowledge of the English language or culture? (the inverse of most FTs in China)
Pretty sure when that was found out the lovely people of our home countries would treat them fairly right? Doubtful. Employers would make up things about the culture and law. Taxi drivers seeing the person fumble to explain where they want to go would sometimes try to rip them off. Go to a pub, bartender knows you can't read the price, they can make up the price. Of course it would not be everyone, not even the majority, but it would happen. Same here.
As far as the job, with no language abilities and no knowledge of the legal system they would be unable to/or not even know they could sue. |
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