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| Should a TEFL certification course be completed before or after gaining teaching experience? |
| Before teaching experience |
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82% |
[ 19 ] |
| After teaching experience |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Doesn't matter if before or after |
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8% |
[ 2 ] |
| It's unnecessary; years of experience trumps a TEFL cert |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Other |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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kpjf
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| MuscatGary wrote: |
| kpjf wrote: |
| Any thoughts on whether or not the CELTA would be necessary? Or even if not necessary maybe it's just a worthwhile add-on? |
Whether it's necessary is a bit of a moot point. It really depends on where you want to work and whether THEY think it's necessary. |
Could you be more specific, i.e. which countries would deem it necessary? Or do you mean more so the 'type' of establishment (secondary school, language academy etc)?
Thanks
| suphanburi wrote: |
With an MATESOL + PGCE + some classroom time there is no need for a CELTA.
Anything you may be missing won't be much and certainly not worth spending the extra $2000 + 30 days on.
(read - no real advantage.).
. |
Thanks for the information, that's good to know. Well, for a PGCE in the UK you spend 2/3s of your time in school and only 1/3 in university so it adds up to quite a bit of time in the classroom. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Most of the ME. Check the job postings on here and tefl.com and you'll see that the recruiters can be quite inflexible, they want what they know. However if you're looking to teach in international schools then that's a different story... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| I guess my point is that I think folks should try teaching and see if they like it. Then get qualified to do it properly. I guess my point is that I think folks should try teaching and see if they like it. Then get qualified to do it properly. |
However, during that try-out period, what about those who decide they don't like teaching, yet don't realize it's due to not having been properly trained (via a TEFL training course) beforehand? |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I guess my point is that I think folks should try teaching and see if they like it. Then get qualified to do it properly. I guess my point is that I think folks should try teaching and see if they like it. Then get qualified to do it properly. |
However, during that try-out period, what about those who decide they don't like teaching, yet don't realize it's due to not having been properly trained (via a TEFL training course) beforehand? |
Excellent point.
In my own case, I couldn’t and didn’t want to pay for a course. That’s my only excuse. After I had enough money, I enjoyed doing my CELTA, found it useful, and not too difficult to get through because I had a few months experience already.
Could we argue that a badly run course may put off teachers? So many people have told me they hated CELTA, but enjoyed teaching once they were unleashed.
We could certainly argue that we shouldn’t use students as guinea pigs while we figure out if we like teaching. |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Hmmm, some weird thing going on with the quotes there... |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:19 am Post subject: |
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A badly-run course? Welcome to the world of TEFL! If one's own Celta puts one off, then it is hard to imagine having the level of tolerance one will need in a typical language mill.
In any case, I sometimes wonder about those who say they hated the Celta but found teaching easy after they finished the course. Did the course successfully prep them, without their knowing it? Did they just abandon all the principles taught on the course? A strange idea no matter how diced up... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| oxi wrote: |
| Could we argue that a badly run course may put off teachers? |
What do you consider to be a badly-run course? |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Hee hee! One where the trainers didn't massage my ego? |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:08 am Post subject: |
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>What do you consider to be a badly-run course?
I haven't had issues with course content much. More how the teacher-trainers run it and cover course content.
Remember I said I enjoyed my CELTA and found it useful. So I don't have many complaints. I was just glad I had a few months teaching experience before it to help me along the way with the intensity. It gave me the chance to try things out and see what worked. On CELTA, you're not really free to try things out. You have to do what the tutor says or be penalised. They don't appreciate questions or doubts. Once I figured that out, I did exactly what they said, no questions asked, and passed.
Perhaps that's fair enough on a short course.
My DELTA had badly run moments depending on the trainer. One ran tutorials well: good info, highly interactive. Another lectured and talked down to us. The last was a bit disorganized and went off topic a lot. Nothing that couldn't be fixed with a bit more self-study. But time was tight.
>I sometimes wonder about those who say they hated the Celta but found teaching easy after they finished the course.
I hope you don't mean me. I only have some easier days... |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Hee hee! One where the trainers didn't massage my ego? |
Most of my trainers told me:-
Never just tell the students bluntly "No, you're wrong."
Say "That's not quite right."
Then they'd tell me I'm wrong. Boo hoo. |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| oxi wrote: |
| Could we argue that a badly run course may put off teachers? |
What do you consider to be a badly-run course? |
The one I had last December.
Teacher development day for all staff
2 hours of 'Teaching to different learner abilities'
The tutor began with:
'Well I don't know what to tell you. My principal told me yesterday to run this course because none of the other teachers are good enough. In my school I have to teach the best class because the principal told me I'm the best teacher. But she also gave me the worst class because I'm the best teacher. Ha ha ha'
Oh how awestruck we all were |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| oxi wrote: |
The tutor began with:
'Well I don't know what to tell you. My principal told me yesterday to run this course because none of the other teachers are good enough...' |
Bleh. However, free or inexpensive in-service training is different than a full, 120-hour TEFL course targeting new teachers. |
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kpjf
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| MuscatGary wrote: |
| Most of the ME. Check the job postings on here and tefl.com and you'll see that the recruiters can be quite inflexible, they want what they know. However if you're looking to teach in international schools then that's a different story... |
Thanks a lot Gary. The ME is not one of my desired regions to be honest (at least at the moment), but I need to bear that in mind in case I do go there one day. |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
Definitely before, IMO.
From the perspective of someone who has been involved in hiring on and off over 15+ years, and have been involved in both basic teacher training and ongoing professional development:
Most people without training specific to language teaching logically apply the approaches/methods they themselves experienced in their own early education. These are not particularly effective with language learners, particularly older teenagers to adults.
People who have taught core subjects to students in their native languages also need a bridge into the different types of approaches and methods used in language teaching.
Finally, as we've noted before on numerous threads, having done the job is no proof of having done it well. Experience without training/education/qualifications is absolutely no guarantee of quality - in fact, in my personal experience, it's more likely to indicate someone who's unlikely to succeed in any context where there are solid standards for teaching and outcomes. |
Language teaching is different from teaching general education subjects (e.g., math, science, history, "English"). Teachers of general education subjects should obtain their country's/state's (in the US)/province's (Canada) ESL certification. Even that would only qualify them to teach children. Courses like CELTA and other TESOL certifications are geared toward teaching adults. I can tell you that all the teaching/training of adults I've done over the years (e.g. a military leadership course, planned maintenance systems and a legal assistant course, among others) did not prepare me for teaching English as a foreign language at a language school in Kazakhstan. Were it not for the TESOL certification, I wouldn't have had a clue how to teach what for my students is a foreign language.
I have a 250-hour TESOL certification, but I'm also eligible to teach early childhood to 8th grade (elementary and middle school) and ESL in the state of Texas. It was likely the latter that landed me my upcoming middle school position in China. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Completing a cert after some experience makes it easier to put the course recommendations into context (and not everyone who has taught without training has developed unbreakably bad habits - intelligent and halfway conscientious people will develop reasonable practices regardless), and may even help one get a higher passing grade (which I've heard is necessary if one wishes to then work at more prestigious schools such as IH, who apparently require at least a B).
I voted 'Other', in the sense of 'It depends'. Too many individually-varying factors at play to give a blanket 'Should' either way.
If money is no object I always say get some training first, though! |
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