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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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 Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Urgh! Fleas! Hamsters need to watch them pesky varmints!
However, I didn't notice anything especially 'reely' about today's posts...  |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| @Nomad: I'd hope there isn't a total bias against academic programs that have actual practicums. I think they're just saying that UK MAs usually don't have such praticums, so...better beware, or do the DELTA to be on the "safe" side. (But like I pointed out, how many people in certainly the UK do an MA in ELT without having first gained quite a bit of experience if not a cert? From what I've seen, UK MAs generally require at least two years' experience beforehand in order to be admitted). |
Perhaps the Cambridge folks are of the mindset that an academic practicum is unknown territory and varies among MA degrees programs; whereas, the CELTA and Delta are standardized and familiar---that safe factor. Plus, it's obvious not all CELTA tutors/trainers hold a university degree from the UK, so there's plenty of variation in their academic backgrounds as well. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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But note he 6 zillion edits I made in my reply to Shroob, Sash!
Are you thinking of doing the DELTA then, Nomad? LOL |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Heck no, you silly hairball!  You must have seen my post about practicums on another thread.
Actually, I'm presently completing a Master of Educational Technology and will wean myself off of TEFL in a couple of years. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Actually, I'm presently completing a Master of Educational Technology and will wean myself off of TEFL in a couple of years. |
So, stuff like this?
http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/09/10/the-educational-technology-influence-nexus/
Maybe that model is a little old (2008).
The leadership component of a professional Ed tech degree (versus an M.Ed.) must be interesting. There's a segment of grant writers commonly touted as El Hombre Dorado. I don't envy weighing the value of an online component because the term "blended" is elastic and comes behind an expansion of single-year professional degrees.
I worked in Los Angeles' schools for a number of years. The rule was: You want to make money in LAUSD? Then don't be a teacher. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
But note he 6 zillion edits I made in my reply to Shroob, Sash!
Are you thinking of doing the DELTA then, Nomad? LOL |
Par for the course, though... |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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'he 6 zillion edits I made'?! Ah, wait, this is actually a new sort of quasi-passive, the "Yoda yodel", with the meaning of he (here, Shroob) made me do it!  |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm. Dunno what your last post is about. But it makes the case in point. It is hard to tell it apart from the ones where lawn mowing was apparently a factor. No endless re-edits, mercifully.
I've long suspected that this eccentric style of delivery was merely a ruse to misdirect readers from looking too closely at the spurious claims made about Celta and teacher-training. A clear and concise statement of these opinions wouldn't stand up to scrutiny as long as these amusingly idiosyncratic mewlings.
One can almost see the little hamster legs straining to scratch a deeply irritating flea-bite, which is sadly located just out of reach on its rump, and has been there since the mid-90s. And as for the flea in the ear! |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| It'd be interesting to know where you've worked as a trainer, Sash, and if there are any comments to be found or had from any of your trainees. Maybe Golsa can help me out. In the meantime, let's try and stay on topic and avoid the ad hamsterums. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Would be fascinating to learn where we all were trained up on our pre-service courses, and read the trainer reports. They'd make for far more interesting, and relevant, reading than speculation about trainers' training.
In much the same way that pig-ignorant language students, who refuse to engage in L2 and spend their time messing around on mobiles, avoiding all possible learning opportunities, often write a letter of complaint about the competence of their teacher, some pre-service course trainees share a similar disposition to blaming their trainers. For much the same reason. Training centres are aware of this phenomenon, and include a complaints procedure, and are quite experienced in sifting the few genuine grievances from the many deflections of trainee incompetence.
Wondering about whether or not a Celta trainers' quals meet your satisfaction is a little rich if you almost fail a course. Not to say a total red herring. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| It also would be good to get comments from CELTA tutors/trainers---past and present. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Think we already have... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:11 am Post subject: |
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You're more in the know about that than I am, Sasha. I haven't been following any of the other CELTA-themed threads, so I'm unaware of who's involved in CELTA training unless they come right out and state that they are (i.e., "confess").  |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: |
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from Page 15 of this thread:http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=104580&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=210
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I'm an experienced (i.e. old) CELTA and DELTA tutor and assessor based in NZ. I decided to start up a blog to write up my thoughts on some of these issues, but here are a few of the points I made there with some additional comments.
Celta programmes are quite varied, so it makes little sense to generalise about 'the Celta method' etc based on the experience of one (or a small number) of programmes
If you do want to generalise (e.g. in saying that the programme is outdated) you need to refer to what they do all have in common - i.e. the syllabus and assessment criteria.
The courses are taught (and internally assessed) by experienced classroom teachers. That's generally a strength of the programme, especially as compared with many university qualifications, taught by lecturers who don't spend much time, if any, actually teaching nowadays. However, that can also be a limitation. Teachers have a tendency to get stuck in their ways and may have their own particular obsessions with one aspect of language or learning.
My advice is mainly for trainees to turn a blind eye to these (i.e. including my own, if I happen to be your trainer), unless it really impacts on your performance, in which case talk it over with the visiting assessor. I'd say exactly the same about working or training with anyone. You can learn a lot from other people, even if some of their beliefs are foolish.
For the record, in assessing many Celta courses in various places, I haven't seen much reference to multiple intelligences, learning styles etc. For me, these are nonsensical, but largely harmless distractions. And I believe it's been a long time since PPP type lessons were the norm in Celta courses (in my own experience, not since the 1980s, a time when the Celta used to be called RSA Cert TEFLA). However, as I said at the top, there are hundreds of Celta centres all around the world; hard to say what goes on in all of them!
In any case, in many areas of teaching there are genuine differences of emphasis among teachers and these are reflected in the practice of Celta trainers. For example, some trainers see a value in having trainees write up phonemic transcription on the board and in handouts. I personally don't (unless that's part of a complete programme of learning and using phonemic script, which isn't really the case in the teaching practice on Celta courses). Some believe students should always do a gist task before a detailed task. Again, I don't. Some believe that language should always and only be taught in the context of authentic discourse. Another one I don't go along with. And the list could go on.
I'm happy to discuss and justify my points of view with whoever, but I'm not in the business of forcing them on anyone. Compliance behaviour really isn't much use in terms of a person's long-term development as a teacher - it's much better if they can see the rationale for doing something a particular way - and also that teaching is a matter of making decisions based on judgements about student learning, rather than implementing overlearned routines. So, when I'm a trainer, I encourage a variety of approaches to listening and reading exercises, for instance, including jigsaw, prediction, quizzes, negotiated tasks, learner-generated tasks etc, none of which involve gist plus detail. But, honestly, if a particular centre does want the trainees to give gist tasks as a matter of course, I don't see that as an issue. They're representative of a common position, that also runs through a lot of course books. When I wrote a book for MacMillan about 10 years ago, I was required to include gist and detailed tasks for every text. A bit limiting; a bit dogmatic; but no biggie! I toed the line and pocketed the truly modest cheque.
In the end, these differences of opinion or practice make very little difference to the core business of Celta courses, which is the basics of effective language teaching: an opportunity for the novice teachers to show (others and, more importantly, themselves) that they can analyse language or texts from the point of view of student needs, define clear and relevant learning aims for a lesson based on helping students meet their needs, select appropriate activities and resources to help them achieve those aims, sequence them logically, give clear and effective instructions, manage the class so that students can complete the activities and give the students accurate, clear and positive feedback on their achievement.
When did that become out of date?
Martin McMorrow
Academic English Podcast |
Teacher training is also a part of my job, and has been for years, so I reckon I have a few clues. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| What an excellent post to... re-post. Well done to all concerned! |
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