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AgentMulderUK
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 360
Location: Concrete jungle (Tokyo)
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 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| shmooj wrote: |
Well Mike L, Agent and Ryuro ... you must all simply have the most boring Japanese friends around.
I had a great bunch of friends and mundane and boring they certainly weren't. Routine they may have had, but interesting routine.
What you have posted here proves that Japan works and that, for you at least, sakoku is still in force. At least I made it to Dejima. |
Yeah,well thanks Shmooj, for another 'state the obvious' post.  Of course, not all Japanese people are how we are describing. We are talking in general terms. Of course, there are many cool and interesting people here. |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Why do you only say this when I badger you.
If there are cool and interesting people here then why don't you post something about them and stop p i s s ing on the Japanese with your generalisations
Have a nice day now  |
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AgentMulderUK
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 360
Location: Concrete jungle (Tokyo)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| shmooj wrote: |
Why do you only say this when I badger you.
If there are cool and interesting people here then why don't you post something about them and stop p i s s ing on the Japanese with your generalisations
Have a nice day now |
Because many of your posts on Dave's seem to be so contrary, just for the sake of it. Sometimes I wonder if someone says the sky is blue , you will make a post that tells us the sky is green.
My post wasn't deadly serious. And actually I don't see which part of my initial post you understood as 'urinating on the Japanese'.
Its perfectly legitimate to make generalisations. It's how we learn.
I have had Japanese girlfriends & friends for about 15 years and I don't have anything against them.It's just interesting to try to find out why they do the stuff they do. I really can't be bothered with people who always whine "oh, but you can't say THAT about everyone"
I'm NOT saying it about everyone. OBVIOUSLY.
For example: "All British are arrogant." So what? |
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joncharles
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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When a society has 'evolved' (or should it be 'devolved'?) to the point where they've nothing better to do than to sit around and watch other people's "reality" on TV rather than going out and living their own reality- I say bring on the asteriods, plagues and poison monkey's! It's time for a global catastrophe to re-set our priorities.
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Good point... but sometimes I think it is more of the broadcasting companies doing this because reality programming is reletively cheap compared to a drama, action, or comedy series.
Oh speaking of TV programing... one cable company is running old 1970's re-runs of Takashi's Castle. ( An early Beat Takashi program of crazy competitions) However, they have taken the original soundtract off and added their own. I know it is trivial, but it made me realize that Japanese TV has not changed much. When I was there I kind of enjoyed Shimura Ken's Baka Tonosama character. (shows you where my mental state is  )
I have always laughed about the eeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhh phenomenon. I used to have a few beers in a place where every thursday a group of woman came in.. it was almost like they are given a cue.. one is talking and and says something surprising or amazing, like a cheap price on a fancy handbag. All the other women at the exact same time.. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhh!!.. I loved it there. |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:51 am Post subject: |
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[quote]Gee Mike... I met some Japanese whose lives made me go
eeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh they were so extreme. For starters, where else can you find professional hobby-ists?
[/quote]
Hobby-ists are retirees or lazy housewives! Sure you had lots in your eikaiwa.
The average Japanese worker is stretched to thin and has very few opurtunites to do anything very interesting. There's nothing "extreme" about their lives..
I know things are different in the countryside but these tv programs are aimed at the viewer I described above.
Heck after a long day on the trains even I find Japanese TV "amazing." |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| AgentMulderUK wrote: |
Because many of your posts on Dave's seem to be so contrary, just for the sake of it. |
no they aren't
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| I really can't be bothered with people who always whine "oh, but you can't say THAT about everyone" |
well why are you bothering then
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I'm NOT saying it about everyone. OBVIOUSLY. |
Isn't obvious to me as you haven't provided any examples otherwise. At least Mike L gave a plausible explanation as to why the vast majority of men might not have interesting lives.
I had one friend though, to blow Mike's theory out of the water, who got up at 4 each Sunday morning to run up a mountain nearby no matter what. He was also very into camping and outdoor stuff and we camped together on three different occasions. Sometimes he was so full of energy and exhausting to be around that I wished he was a little less interesting 
So come on then. From your 15 years' experience, lets hear about the interesting ones. Or is it just easier to tear down than build up... just, apparently, like me |
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worldwidealive
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:02 am Post subject: |
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I really don't know what all of you are worked up about. Please consider my situation: Another teacher in my school goes around throughout the day saying "Sugoi!" constantly, and it's not that he has a strong command of the Japanese language or anything which might at least be a good excuse. He just thinks he sounds 'hip' to do so...
I beg of you, if anyone out there fits this description, please stop it. You really sound foolish and I can't take it anymore.
WWA |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:03 am Post subject: |
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[quote]I had one friend though, to blow Mike's theory out of the water, who got up at 4 each Sunday morning to run up a mountain nearby no matter what.[/quote]
You friend ain't typical and my original statement was about the "average Japanese life."
FYI I just call it, Japan, like I see it. |
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Ailian
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 192
Location: PRC!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| shmooj wrote: |
| Earth to Ailian... leave the country.... now. Over. |
Leave the country... to Japan? <3 Said conversation occurred in the US with a long-naturalized citizen who considers herself my surrogate mother (because I know that you want to know! <3). I refuse to go to Japan for any period longer than a month as I know that she will call me at 3AM to rant about how I didn't tell her beforehand so she could have me stay with her relatives. |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Mike, you have my respect. YOu cite examples to back up what you call your opinion. I'm right there with you and understand what you are saying. Although I only cited one example from among my friends there, there are others so while he may be an exception to your rule, he isn't to mine.
Of the people I knew I also remember:
a guy who had a telescope in his backyard, used to take photos of planets, had a Austin Super Seven he'd go for spins in and traded rare Leica cameras via ebay
a woman who was raising her daughter to be trilingual in English-German-Japanese by teaching her herself and taking her to spend each summer in a German kindergarten
another guy who was a therapist and worked for four years to cut the red tape to enable him to emigrate successfully to NY where he now studies. The conversations I had with this guy were full of fascinating insights into how the Japanese and western minds differed
a couple who were professional musicians - he head of an orchestra. They were forever inviting us either to superb classical concerts or having us round for meals and showing us wierd and wonderful instruments he had brought back from his travels.
I think what you say is valid to a certain extent but because so many people who have experience of Japan find getting to know the Japanese a very difficult thing, we tend to use generalisations to express our angst. When I had finally got to know the people who were around me in Japan by investing lots of time and patience I discovered several people who were genuinely interesting and it helped to dispell the myth that Japan is populated by a bunch of homogenous automatons.
Personally, after my years in Japan, I feel that the Japanese are just as varied and interesting as people I'd met anywhere else. The difference was that until you became part of their ingroup, they didn't let you see this but appeared to be run-of-the-mill and distant, hence my reference to sakoku and dejima in an earlier post. |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ailian wrote: |
| shmooj wrote: |
| Earth to Ailian... leave the country.... now. Over. |
Leave the country... to Japan? <3 Said conversation occurred in the US with a long-naturalized citizen who considers herself my surrogate mother (because I know that you want to know! <3). I refuse to go to Japan for any period longer than a month as I know that she will call me at 3AM to rant about how I didn't tell her beforehand so she could have me stay with her relatives. |
I think your refusal to go to Japan for longer than a month is in everyone's best interests if their mannerisms are irritating you before you even get there.
Interesting how you describe her as a "long-naturalized" citizen despite her still displaying characteristics very natural to Japanese.
BTW... if you are in the US then I still stand by my original advice... |
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AgentMulderUK
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 360
Location: Concrete jungle (Tokyo)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| shmooj wrote: |
Of the people I knew I also remember:
a guy who had a telescope in his backyard, used to take photos of planets, had a Austin Super Seven he'd go for spins in and traded rare Leica cameras via ebay
a woman who was raising her daughter to be trilingual in English-German-Japanese by teaching her herself and taking her to spend each summer in a German kindergarten
another guy who was a therapist and worked for four years to cut the red tape to enable him to emigrate successfully to NY where he now studies. The conversations I had with this guy were full of fascinating insights into how the Japanese and western minds differed
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Yeah, no kiddin'? They are really interesting. I can't believe you knew a guy with a real telescope.
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Ailian
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 192
Location: PRC!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| shmooj wrote: |
| I think your refusal to go to Japan for longer than a month is in everyone's best interests if their mannerisms are irritating you before you even get there. |
They hardly irritate me (actually, they amuse me ). I was merely offering an anecdote. which, to me, was amusing, to illustrate my point.
Perhaps you should try to understand that we are all not trying to insult Japan, her people, and their mannerisms in this thread (or, indeed, in this forum). And yes, I do not wish to go to Japan for longer than a month as I would feel obliged (oh, that giri!) to put myself into a situation in which I would not be happy out of consideration of our friendship and the generosity that she has shown me in the past. <3 |
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AgentMulderUK
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 360
Location: Concrete jungle (Tokyo)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Well said Ailian, as always. |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, still bothering I see...
Yeah, at least Ailian says something and, from what he and Mike L say, I can understand their situation more and agree to disagree if not actually come round to their point of view. As for you, I'm still waiting Agent.... perhaps you don't actually know anyone Japanese....
Oh, I forgot to mention that his telescope was about thirty foot high, was custom built and installed using a crane inside its own custom built observatory.
Thought your imagination might fill in the details but then I didn't want to sugoi you out or anything. |
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