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Feedback from Students
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RustyShackleford



Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A teacher at my place recently had their contract terminated because of student feedback. They were someone who, as Luke described, looked fantastic on paper (degrees, qualifications, years of experience) yet, in the classroom, under observation, was simply talking to the students for hours upon hours. Students complained to other teachers, but we all just told them to confront the teacher directly - which one, at least, actually did. DOS and such also made several large hints that the style of teaching needs to change.

This teacher later went on a rant placing all blame on students and accusing the school of bad practice. This, despite repeated warning and offers to work with the gent.

Incidentally, I also had students literally boycott my class at one point for quite similar reasons. It forced me to take a good look at myself and, upon opening an honest dialogue the students, I came to understand what they wanted and they came to understand what I wanted and we all sang Kum-bah-frickin-yah. Well, no, but things went much much better.

Our place is not much for clowns in the classroom either. Much like Luke says though, some well-placed humor and creating an engaging but still serious atmosphere goes a long way.

And yes, that Droid is fantastic. Very Happy
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VietCanada wrote:
I didn't need to read any further than Mr. Welsh's link. I bookmarked it. TY 1SW.


You're welcome Smile.

ExpatLuke wrote:
When you arbitrarily say "them" in a sentence when you're talking about Vietnam, it has nothing to do with the cognitive abilities of the reader, and everything to do with your poor phrasing of the sentence. Rolling Eyes

These are the people teaching others how to communicate.


Yep. When I first read the post in question, I interpreted it exactly the same way as ExpatLuke had and, if anything, I was a bit surprised the mods hadn't deleted it. I don't want to flog a dead horse, but just thought I'd mention it.
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Feedback from Students Reply with quote

1st Sgt Welsh wrote:
FreshlyBrewedCoffee wrote:


How many of you have received a tersely worded email along the lines of "due to feedback from students, your class has been canceled"?


To be honest, never, but, I'll use any excuse to post a link to this magnificent website Smile:

https://sites.google.com/site/englishdroid2/school-life/complaints


I've spent the last few hours reading through it. Hilarious stuff. Laughing
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skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As so often happens people tend to argue at cross purposes.

Feedback could be and even sometimes is useful, valuable and positive.

Even if we're qualified up to the eyes and have years of experience we can get lazy, complacent or just not have the right styles for a new country or new class. Feedback can help you improve and be a better teacher....

Sadly - feedback like observations in a previous thread are often abused by poor managers to get rid of staff who are annoying them in other ways or simply too expensive/excess to requirements. They can fire you and have an excuse and not lose face for having broken a contract or perhaps risk a law suit [unlikely though it may be.]

Though made it jest - the blog post linked to above is how it all too often pans out in practice.

In the end students who dislike your classes would be best advised to find another class to join. This doesn't really work in a large school with dozens of teachers coming and going on loose or non-existent contracts of course.

It's thorny problem. IMO EFL was much better when there were small scale cooperatives run by close knit groups of like minded teachers with no big-bucks boss behind the scenes trying to squeeze every cent of profit out of it. Sometimes I dream of founding something like that - but then reality smacks my in the face and I get back to my niche and forget about righting wrongs and making the world safe for EFL....
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half moon



Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RustyShackleford wrote:
A teacher at my place recently had their contract terminated because of student feedback. They were someone who, as Luke described, looked fantastic on paper (degrees, qualifications, years of experience) yet, in the classroom, under observation, was simply talking to the students for hours upon hours. Students complained to other teachers, but we all just told them to confront the teacher directly - which one, at least, actually did. DOS and such also made several large hints that the style of teaching needs to change.


TTT - a high amount of "Teacher Talking Time" often leads to termination.

It is a very bad habit and needs to be reduced.

Quote:
This teacher later went on a rant placing all blame on students and accusing the school of bad practice. This, despite repeated warning and offers to work with the gent.


This teacher did not get it. Pretty ridiculous on his/her part.

It's amazing to occasionally see a teacher with lots of experience and lots of paper, be bad and also defensive. Sounds like he/she was projecting.

Quote:
Incidentally, I also had students literally boycott my class at one point for quite similar reasons. It forced me to take a good look at myself and, upon opening an honest dialogue the students, I came to understand what they wanted and they came to understand what I wanted and we all sang Kum-bah-frickin-yah. Well, no, but things went much much better.


I work at one private school where the students (their parents and the adults) pay money to learn. For some it's a fair amount of money.

I need to find out what individual learners and the class as a whole wants: Sometimes I may not agree with it, but my job is to give the "paying learner" what they want.

I have studied a couple of foreign languages in classes and with private teachers. If I feel I am not getting what I need and want, I address it. And I often drop the class and go to another teacher.

In a public school it's different. I have worked in public schools, and your security and standing often depends on the Principal (or your boss) being happy with you a lot more than the students.
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ekim10



Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing the short story, FreshlyBrewed. It isn't at all a complaint, and I and other users appreciate honest posts such as this one. This post is a good indicator of why I left esl not only in Vietnam but Asia in general -- more and more it's about popularity and being "staff favorites" over quality lessons and classroom skill.
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RustyShackleford



Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExpatLuke wrote:

That's basic intercultural knowledge. Makes you wonder why people who choose to live in other countries don't take the time to get the most elementary intercultural lessons.


So true. The amount of quasi-colonialism I see among expats in Asia is truly staggering sometimes. Vietnam is by no means a perfect place to live, but it is a conscious choice that we, as English-speaking often-Western expat, make. We have a choice to jump on a plane back home or to wherever we like whenever we care to. That's a choice many local people don't get to make (or, at least, nowhere near as easily).
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekim10 wrote:
Thanks for sharing the short story, FreshlyBrewed. It isn't at all a complaint, and I and other users appreciate honest posts such as this one. This post is a good indicator of why I left esl not only in Vietnam but Asia in general -- more and more it's about popularity and being "staff favorites" over quality lessons and classroom skill.


As bad as some of the things about teaching in Vietnam can be, I honestly don't think that student feedback is one of those things. Hanoi has all sorts of problems. I'm sure we could all put our heads together and come up with a long list ranging from students buying their grades to the filth and congestion of the streets.

However, when a whole class of students complains to management about a teacher, then it's probably time to take a long look at yourself. I know it's tempting to get defensive, but it's quite unlikely that the students didn't like you because you weren't "tall, handsome, or sexy enough". I'm mean, I've seen some of the EFL teacher in Vietnam, and believe me, being good looking is not something that matters. Very Happy

In the US I taught a class full of insanely wealthy Saudi students. Before going into the class, the other teachers warned me about them as they were notorious for complaining to management, influential Saudi leaders, and their obscenely wealthy parents whenever they got a teacher that they didn't like. One of the teachers that was so outspoken against them was one of the older, more qualified teachers. He had received so many complaints from them that he was currently under review by upper management. However, the week before, I had observed his classes, and the guy was just awful. He wasn't "drunk, hungover, or unshaven" either, and he was brimming with confidence. But all he did was talk over the students. All the students were cowed into silence and only answered a few questions when he asked them. To me, it seemed the students' complaints were well founded. So, I went to the Saudi class, and it went great. They were one the most enjoyable classes I've ever taught.

So to make a long story short. I don't think a teacher should ever brush off student feedback when it comes from the entire class. Sure, you might always have 1 or 2 students who may complain about something, but to chalk something like this up to "Oh, look how awful teaching in Vietnam is." would be wrong.
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