Job Discussion Forums

[m_teacher]

I’d like to share about the experience I had with Prince Mohammad Bin Fahd University (PMU) in Saudi Arabia. Although they didn’t actually break any laws, I believe that their way of dealing with prospective applicants is very unethical, and I’d like to spare other people some of the aggravation I went through.

PMU contacted me through a head-hunter and, after a hasty interview (see below), offered me a teaching position. They gave me a week to think about it. I accepted the offer within a few days and haven't heard from them since, even though I have sent several emails to both of their recruitment officers (J G and M C) asking for some follow-up to their offer and my acceptance. It’s fair to deduce that they offered this job to me and at least one other person at the same time, and then closed the deal with the other person. I guess they think there is no need to communicate with me now that they have chosen another candidate, even though they went so far as to send me a contract.

Offering a job to multiple people at the same time as a way of putting people on hold is clearly unethical and unprofessional. Professional ethics dictate that you offer a job to one person at a time; if something beyond your control happens that compels you to withdraw an offer of employment, you would obviously do that as promptly as possible, so as not to waste a candidate’s time. PMU apparently doesn’t think these rules of courtesy apply to them.

This shouldn’t have been a surprise to me, since they have conducted themselves in exactly the same way since my very first contact with them a couple months ago. They called me up out of the blue and asked me, with only three days’ notice, if I could fly to Los Angeles for an interview. I said yes, and they then dropped out of communication for three weeks. There was never an apology or explanation for having agreed to an interview with me and then canceling it without any notice.

I had almost forgotten about PMU when they resurfaced again one morning, calling me at 7 a.m. to ask if I could do a Skype interview in 15 minutes. The interview was really quick, so I was surprised when they offered me the job a few days later. I should have been suspicious, but I felt very fortunate to get such an offer. In retrospect, I can see that they were never sincere in any of their offers or promises to me. They were simply putting me on hold while they tried to line up a bunch of other candidates. This is their M.O.

I’m embarrassed for having believed each of their hollow offers, and feel like I should have seen this for what it was right after they blew me off the first time. But it just didn’t occur to me that a university would be so unethical and inconsiderate. And I’ll admit that I was enticed by the package. So I convinced myself to overlook all their rudeness and self-centered mode of communicating.

If you are approached by PMU or initiate contact with them, be on the lookout for signs that they are making false promises and abusing your time. I wouldn't trust anything they say. I think my experience shows a clear pattern of misrepresentations and false promises that serve PMU’s convenience.

(MOD edit for names)

[nomad soul]

Too bad you didn't check here first. Anyway, it sounds like nothing's changed...

"PMU using recruitment consultants?" (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=1084670)
"Interview with PMU" (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=1045195)
"PMU Accommodation - ORYX 1" (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=85000)
"PMU Treatment" (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=85782)

[m_teacher]

Yes, I do regret not having done some more homework. Lesson learned!

[oilers]

if you read posts from other countries you will find this is quite common in this field, korea is notorious for unscrupulous uni hirings, plenty of recruiters look for shark bait for unis all over the world, and the gulf is also prone to having fly-by-night scumbag uni jobs as well. it's just a dirty field this EFL industry, tertiary or otherwise...

[oilers]

oh, and btw, i almost bit the pmu lure as well, they offered it twice in consecutive years, which itself raises alarm bells, luckily i didn't take the bait so consider yourself lucky and keep digging for something reasonable if you are looking for something in the gulf (or at least well-paid, the former is very rare)

[cultofpersonality]

Perhaps PMU are being lazy and inefficient...

This place is not serious at all. Avoid!

[AbeCross]

[HavCrick]

PMU and ethics are totally incompatible. They do not know the meaning of the word. The Dean is 75 years old and the Chairman is 66. Neither know ANYTHING about teaching EFL. The Associate Chair is just a complete MOD edit.

NO ONE at PMU is allowed to take a crap without the express permission of the Rector.......a friend of the person who OWNS the university. This is about making money. Period. Students have been passed that could not write a 5 word sentence.

This (country and Uni) is the biggest joke I have every seen.

[sicklyman]

sounds like someone is lonely and needs some attention

[SheikMilkShake]

Students got their degrees
Owners/business/contractors/ recruiters make $$$
teaching staff make $$$
some got BFs, and marriage
Lonely souls inside KSA can give good advice here to new comers
ex-Saudi teachers can open their hearts to complain about their grievances


who is the loser? all win-win

[lcanupp1964]

I generally agree with the last post, although I would describe it as a “compromise-compromise” as opposed to a “win-win”. It’s the students that will be the biggest loser in this money grab game. Many students only want that “piece of paper”, so they can get a job. This has been learned behavior for many years. They will get a job, but once the employer figures out that the newly hired graduate can’t speak English (after receiving a degree in English), he/she will be reassigned to a small, dusty desk in a corner and destine (unless wasta prevails) to remain at their current salary with very little hope for a promotion. The students that have figured out that hard work should trump all, will be the ones taking this country into a brighter future. I have often said that it might take another generation before the concept of a strong, positive work ethic becomes more common.

[babur]

In reality

[HavCrick]

Bottom line, there are more Porches, BMWs, at least 1 Aston Martin and Cadillac in the paring lot of PMU than at a dealership. Those are the cars they will actually drive to school.

PMU was started for students that could not score high enough on entrance exams to enter a legitimate, accredited university. All they had to do was pay the tuition......... a LOT of tuition compared to others.

Students in Saudi are PAID to go to school!!!!! Imagine that. It is a program of the King's to keep students off the streets and out of trouble. I would fully support the idea if school administrators supported education and teachers. Instead, (at least at PMU), if they do not like their grade or a report made by a teacher, they pay 500 SAR to appear before a "committee" that decides whether to overturn the teacher's report.

I have no doubt that some may have been overturned, but I do NOT know of any. I DO know of a teacher who got in trouble last year for trying to enforce the attendance rule........the 2 students (twins) had missed more than 60% of classes. THEY passed, the teacher got in trouble.

Now, THAT sort of stuff is the reality of every university I have heard of here. Remember, I have been here 10 years and have talked to 100s of teachers. The best thing, the only good thing, is that my house is paid for and I have traveled the world.

But, seriously, university education here is going downhill all over the place. NOTHING AT ALL against non-native speakers, but unis are hiring more and more non-native speakers to teach English.

Why? Not because they are so much better. It is because they can pay them about 70% of what they pay native speakers. Some of them have trouble with English themselves.

[buravirgil]

[HavCrick]

This does not address Buravirgil's remarks about Tabuk. But, this is just one example of typical, everyday, treatment of expats. Keep in mind, this example applies mostly to cleaners working for SABIC (look it up) at my uni.

In the Philippines (where most come from) they are promised 1,200 SAR (about $320 USD) per month and they sign their contract. When they arrive, their passports are taken and they are forced to sign a new contract. The new contract pays the 600 SAR ($159 per month). Plus, they are forced to sleep in single-room apartments, at least 6 to an apartment (some with no working A/C) and they often work 18 hours per day. They have NO CHOICE. Slavery is alive and well in the kingdom. It was officially outlawed in 1962, but it is still rampant.

Single men cannot go to a mall alone. The decision was made because they harass the women and act like pigs. So, I tend to agree with the decision.

By law, when the temperature reaches 50 degrees C, all work is supposed to stop, doesn't happen. They lie about the temp. I have seen poor (emotional and financial) Indians, Bangladeshis and Philippines SWEEPING the street in 50+C temperatures. If you are a woman, treatment is even worse. You need a male escort.

I also know of 3 teachers at my uni who spent months and many, many dollars suing the university for contract violations. [b]THEY WON THEIR CASES! [/b] Remember that!!!! However, they were never paid what the court ordered, plus they had to pay for their own transportation back to their ho!me country!!! Again a contract violation. These were experienced teachers with MS degrees and more than adequate qualifications.

I know a little (very little) Arabic. I have heard students say "f*** you infidel I don't need English." That is the attitude and it is true when you are worth millions of dollars. They are in school to fight boredom.

I know of one man who was driving and was hit by a Saudi. The Saudi got out of his car with his tire iron and was going to beat the crap out of the innocent party. Fortunately, the guy who was hit knew enough Arabic to say "I am converting, please do not kill me." The guy with the tire iron calmed down. I have been hit 3 times.

I have driven at night and was approached from behind by a black car with no headlights.

In public high schools, it is VERY common or students to throw water bottles (empty), or shoes, at the teacher purely for entertainment. Of course, since the teacher is Egyptian (usually), if they complain, they are deported (or worse).

I know all of this stuff is hard to believe. I would not have believed it. Before I came here, I had never posted on this site before coming here. I had the attitude that if the teacher was doing their job, they did not post. I have found that to be inaccurate. Now, I try to warn people. Remember, there is NOTHING to do when you are not working.......there are no movie theaters, no bars, no recreation.

One teacher has a kayak. He has been ordered out of the water, at gunpoint. I could continue, but I am tired and ready to lie down. That is about the only thing there is to when you are not working.

Still, come if you want. But, DO NOT expect to be treated like an equal human being. You are NOT. Not in the eyes of Saudis. Saudis believe they are God's gift to the world and all other cultures are s***. If they (Saudi) have a brain and money, they are studying in a different country. I would say that 90% of my students wish they were some where else, a western country.

They also have one of (if not THE) highest traffic fatality rate in the world. I never drive to work without seeing an accident.

The money is good, I don't deny. But, there is a reason they have to pay. I would NOT take any job for less than 13,000 SAR per month. Not worth it.

Yes, I am bitter and I hate this place and the people. I have said before, they will smile to your face while they are stabbing you in the back. If a Saudi said "it is hot in Saudi Arabia," I would not believe him.

I have NEVER met another Muslim or Arab that likes Saudis. NEVER in 10 years. Think about that.

As always, you can send me a private message and I will reply.