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lisalisa_23452
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Posts: 13
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 Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:48 am Post subject: Wuxi International School wants me to do their TEFL IN CHINA |
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I applied for a position as a kindergarten teacher for Wuxi International School, I actually had a Skype interview with their liaison.
During the interview she mentioned that because I didn't have any formal teaching experience (only substitute teaching) that I would have to complete the TEFL IN CHINA training before I could teach for their school. She said that China law requires this and then she sent me a link to their TEFL program for my perusal.
So, yesterday, she emailed me and said that the school will pay for the tuition fees and the necessary additional travel fees to Beijing/HK for training and my visa first and I need to pay them all back in the following 6 months. After 1 year of working in their school, the 3000 RMB tuition fees will be given back to me.
Then she went on to say that if it was okay with me, the next step would be for me to talk to the principal of the school and if he thinks I am qualified, she will send me a contract. Then she said I will come to China first on a tourist visa, and finish the September TEFL IN CHINA course in Beijing, go to HK to change to a z-visa then come back to their school to continue teaching.
This would be my first time teaching abroad so, I am not too sure about this....the whole coming on a tourist visa and then switching to a z visa, this part makes me a little nervous. I have read that some schools require their own TEFL course so any advice from anyone would be appreciated.
Also, I wanted to mention that I have a BA, an MA in Education and a 160 hour TESOL certification but no actual in class teaching experience. |
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Wuxi International School wants me to do their TEFL IN C |
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| lisalisa_23452 wrote: |
I applied for a position as a kindergarten teacher for Wuxi International School, I actually had a Skype interview with their liaison.
During the interview she mentioned that because I didn't have any formal teaching experience (only substitute teaching) that I would have to complete the TEFL IN CHINA training before I could teach for their school. She said that China law requires this and then she sent me a link to their TEFL program for my perusal.
So, yesterday, she emailed me and said that the school will pay for the tuition fees and the necessary additional travel fees to Beijing/HK for training and my visa first and I need to pay them all back in the following 6 months. After 1 year of working in their school, the 3000 RMB tuition fees will be given back to me.
Then she went on to say that if it was okay with me, the next step would be for me to talk to the principal of the school and if he thinks I am qualified, she will send me a contract. Then she said I will come to China first on a tourist visa, and finish the September TEFL IN CHINA course in Beijing, go to HK to change to a z-visa then come back to their school to continue teaching.
This would be my first time teaching abroad so, I am not too sure about this....the whole coming on a tourist visa and then switching to a z visa, this part makes me a little nervous. I have read that some schools require their own TEFL course so any advice from anyone would be appreciated.
Also, I wanted to mention that I have a BA, an MA in Education and a 160 hour TESOL certification but no actual in class teaching experience. |
Do not under any circumstances arrive on a tourist visa.
A tourist visa is for tourists, a work visa is for people looking to work.
If you are able to be employed legally in China they should have no problem sending you the necessary documents so that you can apply for a Z-visa from your home country.
I'm not saying the school is lying to you, they may very well be sincere about sending you to Hong Kong to get your work visa but it simply isn't worth the risks.
Read through these forums and check out some of the horror stories people have posted about arriving on a tourist visa.
There's no need to put yourself at risk like that. |
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Piper2
Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Wuxi International School wants me to do their TEFL IN C |
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| lisalisa_23452 wrote: |
I applied for a position as a kindergarten teacher for Wuxi International School, I actually had a Skype interview with their liaison.
During the interview she mentioned that because I didn't have any formal teaching experience (only substitute teaching) that I would have to complete the TEFL IN CHINA training before I could teach for their school. She said that China law requires this and then she sent me a link to their TEFL program for my perusal.
So, yesterday, she emailed me and said that the school will pay for the tuition fees and the necessary additional travel fees to Beijing/HK for training and my visa first and I need to pay them all back in the following 6 months. After 1 year of working in their school, the 3000 RMB tuition fees will be given back to me.
Then she went on to say that if it was okay with me, the next step would be for me to talk to the principal of the school and if he thinks I am qualified, she will send me a contract. Then she said I will come to China first on a tourist visa, and finish the September TEFL IN CHINA course in Beijing, go to HK to change to a z-visa then come back to their school to continue teaching.
This would be my first time teaching abroad so, I am not too sure about this....the whole coming on a tourist visa and then switching to a z visa, this part makes me a little nervous. I have read that some schools require their own TEFL course so any advice from anyone would be appreciated.
Also, I wanted to mention that I have a BA, an MA in Education and a 160 hour TESOL certification but no actual in class teaching experience. |
Will you be going with your child?
Did you tell the school you are a single parent?
Whatever your answers, in your situation I cannot believe you are even considering this offer. |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Wuxi International School wants me to do their TEFL IN C |
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| Piper2 wrote: |
Will you be going with your child?
Did you tell the school you are a single parent?
Whatever your answers, in your situation I cannot believe you are even considering this offer. |
I can believe it, because she doesn't have the experience of working in China that many of us do. Which is why she came to this forum. To seek advice, preferably friendly, non sarcastic advice, that is actually helpful.
LisaLisa, don't do it. The TEFL course seems to be creeping in just now with other employers telling people the same thing. I guess it's fair enough since they want teachers who know how to teach, if only theoretically, since I doubt you're going to get enough hands on teaching experience doing that course to make a difference when you start work. But since you already have a BA, MA and TESOL then I don't think it should apply to you. Just seems like more of the same. Also it sounds like they won't be paying for the cost of your trip to HK to get the Z visa, which is wrong, as is the idea of going to HK for the Z visa in the first place.
Keep looking. There are legit schools and jobs out there. I know it's tempting to take something because you don't want to get stuck where you are, but it's just not worth the risk. You only need to get caught once and you'll be deported and banned for at least two years. There are more than enough legit schools who can bring you over legally. Good luck with the search. |
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astrotrain
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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I am going to chime in as well with similar offer but no requisite TEFL course from the school. This was a Shanghai International school in the Pudong district,
offer 14000-15000 rmb, free accommodations or allowance etc.
Wanted me to come over end of this month, 1 week from now on tourist visa then they will do paperwork for me to go to HK for Z visa. They were going to finance 3000 rmb for the procedure. Politely declined.
I have too much education and work history to do basic research to know, the top cities, Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen require criminal background check in local country before fly over. How can one possibly do that in 1 week?
The upfront costs in time and monetary $$ for someone to risk going to one of the top tier cities with no legal work visa, invitation, and FEC, plus the cost of possible hotels, cost of travel to another city for paperwork is too high.
Once you are there a number of things can go wrong on your Z visa application (if it was legit in the 1st place) with cost all shouldered on your person.
The question I have is for those in the know, since the new semester starts in September 1st, is it mandatory for new overseas teachers to come in before that date regarding work visa application procedures or is this date flexible for any school so that they can bring a person in on full Z visa before departure after Sept 1st?
The risks are too high going in on L visa. Dump the offer and look for other legit opportunities like myself. |
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| astrotrain wrote: |
I am going to chime in as well with similar offer but no requisite TEFL course from the school. This was a Shanghai International school in the Pudong district,
offer 14000-15000 rmb, free accommodations or allowance etc.
Wanted me to come over end of this month, 1 week from now on tourist visa then they will do paperwork for me to go to HK for Z visa. They were going to finance 3000 rmb for the procedure. Politely declined.
I have too much education and work history to do basic research to know, the top cities, Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen require criminal background check in local country before fly over. How can one possibly do that in 1 week?
The upfront costs in time and monetary $$ for someone to risk going to one of the top tier cities with no legal work visa, invitation, and FEC, plus the cost of possible hotels, cost of travel to another city for paperwork is too high.
Once you are there a number of things can go wrong on your Z visa application (if it was legit in the 1st place) with cost all shouldered on your person.
The question I have is for those in the know, since the new semester starts in September 1st, is it mandatory for new overseas teachers to come in before that date regarding work visa application procedures or is this date flexible for any school so that they can bring a person in on full Z visa before departure after Sept 1st?
The risks are too high going in on L visa. Dump the offer and look for other legit opportunities like myself. |
It's very refreshing to see posts like this.
You are 100% correct, they can't do it in a week and they won't. Most of these places will have you fly over on a tourist or business visa (both of which you can not work on) and just keep coming up with excuses and extended the visa until they don't need you anymore.
Do it right the first time and then you'll have nothing to worry about.
Schools around this time are getting desperate since most start September 1st (a little later for Universities/Colleges) so they just want someone here now to fill a position.
Edit: sorry, didn't answer your question.
A z-visa can be applied for at anytime, mid-semester, start of the semester or end of the semester. It doesn't matter at all. |
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astrotrain
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Kong wrote: |
| astrotrain wrote: |
I am going to chime in as well with similar offer but no requisite TEFL course from the school. This was a Shanghai International school in the Pudong district,
offer 14000-15000 rmb, free accommodations or allowance etc.
Wanted me to come over end of this month, 1 week from now on tourist visa then they will do paperwork for me to go to HK for Z visa. They were going to finance 3000 rmb for the procedure. Politely declined.
I have too much education and work history to do basic research to know, the top cities, Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen require criminal background check in local country before fly over. How can one possibly do that in 1 week?
The upfront costs in time and monetary $$ for someone to risk going to one of the top tier cities with no legal work visa, invitation, and FEC, plus the cost of possible hotels, cost of travel to another city for paperwork is too high.
Once you are there a number of things can go wrong on your Z visa application (if it was legit in the 1st place) with cost all shouldered on your person.
The question I have is for those in the know, since the new semester starts in September 1st, is it mandatory for new overseas teachers to come in before that date regarding work visa application procedures or is this date flexible for any school so that they can bring a person in on full Z visa before departure after Sept 1st?
The risks are too high going in on L visa. Dump the offer and look for other legit opportunities like myself. |
It's very refreshing to see posts like this.
You are 100% correct, they can't do it in a week and they won't. Most of these places will have you fly over on a tourist or business visa (both of which you can not work on) and just keep coming up with excuses and extended the visa until they don't need you anymore.
Do it right the first time and then you'll have nothing to worry about.
Schools around this time are getting desperate since most start September 1st (a little later for Universities/Colleges) so they just want someone here now to fill a position.
Edit: sorry, didn't answer your question.
A z-visa can be applied for at anytime, mid-semester, start of the semester or end of the semester. It doesn't matter at all. |
That was what I thought unfortunately I was not able to ask that during skype (which only lasted a grand whopping 15 secs of actual talk time between constant disconnects). No answer as to why she insisted I come over before Sept 1st, other than what you suggest.
What was surprising was this school even though international by name was a government owned/created institution that has 2 divisions, one purely chinese and the other international with consequent different curriculums. Maybe becus of this she was able to pull strings with the local government for visa purposes but was too high risk for little reward to take a chance.
If some schools are desperate in September does that mean they are willing to accept/hire late comers with full z visa process (may take weeks, all docs, criminal background checks etc) after the schools semester starts (fly in Oct, Nov)? Wouldn't that disrupt their classes and how the usual teaching contracts i.e. 10 months (Sept 2014 to July 2015) are applied?
Why I ask is I plan to do my Trinity CertTESOL locally but the classes do not start until early Oct and end 5 weeks later (Nov). I may get pushed back for other positions till next semester Feb, sigh. |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Some very sound advice so can't add too much but would reiterate that you will be putting a lot on the line financially and time wise with risks all over the place.
If you do a search OP, you will see that there was a previous discussion on the TEFL in China a few months back. My take on it was as follows. After China made the requirements for a work visa much harder in 2013 the supply of teachers started to decrease in a job market with increasing demand. The enactment and stronger enforcement of the two year rule in itself kills supply as few have come to China already possessing this experience. After that it SEEMS that some businessperson convinced (paid off) the right people in government that if new teachers attended his program in Beijing the two year rule could be waved. As discussed in the forum previously it is idiotic to think that someone with an in class TEFL should have to attend this course.
Also Wuxi is in Jiangsu which now requires a CBC and I believe the z-visa cannot be done from a Third Country. I am of the opinion that the contact is desperate for teachers and that it can somehow be miraculously worked out. If not, it becomes your time and dime. Sadly, very mainland Chinese.
There are lots of open positions year round in China, especially this year. I wouldn't personally follow the thinking that there are two main hiring seasons and if you don't take a job now you will be out of luck.
Good luck! |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| jimpellow wrote: |
There are lots of open positions year round in China, especially this year. I wouldn't personally follow the thinking that there are two main hiring seasons and if you don't take a job now you will be out of luck.
Good luck! |
I'll second this. Of course the universities and public schools, as well as the private schools, will focus on the autumn semester, after the summer holidays, and the spring semester, after Spring Festival, since this is when most of them start new courses. They want teachers in place before then so they have a body to put in front of the students. That doesn't mean they don't all need to hire at other times though. People leave, and it's not always because the school screwed them over. People get homesick/better offers/pregnant/die or what have you, and move on.
People also fail to turn up or change their mind. My uni went through three different people before the holidays all of whom interviewed, were offered the job, accepted and then changed their minds. We're hoping that the fourth one will actually turn up in September.
My advice to anyone looking for a job in China is, unless you've actually sold your house, given up your job, gone on the run from the police or whatever, wait. You're safe where you are, and no matter how bored or unfulfilled or whatever you feel, it's probably better than the feelings you'll have when you're being fined, deported and banned for several years over here.
Take your time, find the right job, or at the very least, the job that allows you to work within the law. It's worth it in the long run. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: |
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I do some part time work at a kids training school. They can get a real Z visa - RP for their teachers. I was chatting with the new teacher - he's been there for 2 months. Working on a tourist visa. His 60 days is up. I asked him about the Z visa. Told me school is giving him the run-a-round. He has to go to HK for a turnaround - at his expense.
Seems the school - which has always been 100% legit to me and paying me correctly - has told him that 2 months was not long enough to get him a new visa. AND they won't pay for his HK in and out trip.
Not only won't they pay for it they wouldn't give him any time off so he has to fly there - on a sunday night, sleep at the airport, and catch a 9am flight back.
The moral is - NEVER believe what the school says and NEVER work on a tourist visa - regardless what they say. |
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toteach
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I spoke with Wuxi International, but they insisted the couldn't provide housing for a family. Strange they'd give you family housing, but TIC and a contract is never the same from one person to another.
Don't come over on a tourist visa. Don't.
(And remember that without IB certification, no school is truly an "international" school, no matter what their name states). |
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jm21
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 406
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Are there that many employers who want the TEFL thing? Even Kindy? I don't have one and no one asked about it when I was applying for jobs. One recruiter thought I didn't have enough experience (under 2 years) for a job and I told her to send my resume on to the school anyways, which she did, and I got hired at that school. |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jm21 wrote: |
| Are there that many employers who want the TEFL thing? Even Kindy? I don't have one and no one asked about it when I was applying for jobs. One recruiter thought I didn't have enough experience (under 2 years) for a job and I told her to send my resume on to the school anyways, which she did, and I got hired at that school. |
I would imagine that as time goes by more and more schools will find out about this workaround and will try to use it if they are in a jurisdiction where the two year rule is enforced.
Another big expense for the teacher in a market with increasing demand but stagnant wages for most positions as compounding inflation erodes the actual purchasing power of said stagnant wages.
I digress, but odd how say factory workers are seeing 10 to 15% annual wage increases due to shrinking supply but ESL teachers are not save for a couple areas like subjects. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:08 am Post subject: |
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read this:
http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=88874
| Quote: |
China TEFL & TESOL Certificate Scam 4 ESL Foreign Teachers
#216150 by Omega Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:55 am
Image
The TEFL & TESOL ESL Training program is $300 million industry and more than half of it is a scam. Why? Here are the three big reasons you need to know BEFORE you sign up or pay a deposit for any such training no matter how big the company (The biggest scam is run by a $50 million company in the U.K.)
1. Contrary to what you are told on the telephone by sales reps and China job recruiters (sales agents who collect commissions for referrals) THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REQUIREMENT TO HAVE A TEFL OR A TESOL CERTIFICATE IN CHINA!!!!! If you don't believe this just check with SAFEA's information office in China (http://www.SAFEA.gov.cn) or visit http://www.ChinaForeignTeachersUnion.com.
2. There are no online TEFL or TESOL certificates that are accepted nor recognized in China even from that huge U.K. company (OnlineTEFL.com and their sister company i-to-i.com) 90% of all the TEFL/TESOL certificates are only good in countries where you probably don't want to teach anyway like Haiti, Portugal, Somalia, Uganda, El Salvador, Algeria, Yemen, Mali, Sudan, Libya, etc.
3. Less than 2% of the 19,000+ schools and learning centers in China that hire foreign teachers even ask if you have one, and less than 5% of the 30,000 expat foreign teachers do have a TESOL or TEFL certificate and they do not make any more money than other teachers who do not. Maybe you will in fact become a better teacher by taking a TEFL or TESOL course but you are not going to learn much on-line and all China really needs and want for you to teach there is the following:
a) A Bachelor degree in any major
b) Two years prior work experience
c) English Fluency
d) Police certificate proving that you have no criminal record
e) A valid passport with a Z visa (work visa)
So anyone who tries to tell you something different than the above is hustling you. Still don't believe it? Check out these links:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=107979
http://www.realscam.com/f8/china-tesol- ... hers-3371/
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 936AAAcCmf
http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/s ... hina-china
Just remember, every time you talk to anyone in China about working there, the vultures are circling for a free lunch - YOU! There are 139 such vulture companies and they are listed on the CFTU China Black List. Sign nothing until you read that list and read the scam alerts at http://www.ChinaScamBusters.com.
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Omega
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Listerine
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 340
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| jimpellow wrote: |
| Also Wuxi is in Jiangsu which now requires a CBC |
Nah it doesn't. Some places in Jiangsu are getting uber-anal (*cough* *cough* Suzhou) and going over and above the nation-wide requirements to issue the Z/RP, but as of right now (confirmed with new co-workers 10 minutes ago) a CBC isn't currently required in the Wu'. |
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