Job Discussion Forums

[thomthom]

After two year's in Seoul and one year in Tokyo, I'm considering one more year of ESL, in a situation where I can save enough to go back to university.

Korea was great for money, but I wouldn't want to go back again. Japan was incredible culturally, but hopeless for making anything doing ESL.
Would I be correct in believing that Shanghai could be a happy medium?

I'm setting the bar at 15000 RMD per month minimum - not considering any positions that offer less than that. How much do you think one could save, living in a fairly nice/central apt, perhaps going out just once a week?
With 3 year's experience and a fairly good CV, should I be aiming higher than that?

[Capt Lugwash]

I couldn't live in Shanghai on less than 25,000. Not unless I wanted to be a hermit. It's more expensive than London.

[roadwalker]

If that 15000 doesn't come with free accommodation then it's not a great salary for Shanghai and in fact is a poor one depending on the hours needed to earn it. Personally I could save in Shanghai at that salary because I live cheaply generally speaking. Going out in shanghai varies. You can spend your salary in a night, or find some cheaper entertainment. Personally, I'd work in a satellite city and enjoy Shanghai on a day off.

[jm21]

I am looking at jobs in Shanghai and trying to figure out what makes it that much more expensive besides housing. I would think groceries wouldn't be that much more expensive than at a western supermarket here in Qingdao. On meituan the restaurants don't seem ridiculously expensive and I only go out a few times each month anyway. Don't care about bars. Seems like you could save quite a bit on something like 13k+ with housing provided. Maybe 9k rmb per month?

Figure 3000 per month in groceries?

[Banner41]

Groceries are the same if not cheaper than other cities. (More volume/competition) I don't pay much more in housing than other cities just a little smaller place. I could upgrade to a bigger place but I haven't really had a need. As far as going out, tons of places have happy hours and drink specials (again more competition).

If you need 4000 dollars a month to live here, you are doing something very wrong.

[Simon in Suzhou]

"Decent living wage" is going to vary massively person to person. Whether I live in a first tier city like Shanghai or a third-tier city, I spend the same:About 3000/month. I cook mostly for myself (lots of western food including more expensive items like cheese), eat in cheap chinese restaurants a couple times a week, and in a western restaurant about once a week. I don't drink, so I spend nada on alcohol and bars. I'm comfortable and not scrimping on a budget.

If you live in central Shanghai and must pay for your own housing, this is where your money will go. If you only take taxis and won't take public transportation like some teachers I've met, you will spend more. If you eat out every day in a western restaurant (or 3 times a day like some people) you will spend ALOT more. If you drink hard and party harder you will find a good portion of your money disappearing in the bars and clubs.

I understand how people spend 20,000 a month living here. It's just what is important to you will dictate the salary you need. I took the step down (salary-wise) from Korea almost 6 years ago and found I saved about the same every month in china, even though my salary was much less. Shanghai is infinitely more interesting than Seoul and on par with, albeit much different from, Tokyo. Realistically, you could probably save 6000rmb/month on that 15,000 job (much more if housing is included). I don't know if that would be enough to go back to university...

[Voyeur]

If you aren't a licensed teacher, it seems unlikely that you will be able to make 25k+ in your first year in Shanghai. It seems more likely that you will need to come in with some cash behind you, live simply (and away from the city center) for a year or two, and build up your contacts and income. On the other hand, I have heard of some FTs who, even without formal qualifications, have managed to do very well in Shanghai after settling in.

I came to Fuzhou first, being afraid of the pollution. Part of me regrets not heading right to a big city and paying my dues as soon as possible. I'd eventually like to make 18,000 or more after my rent/utilities, and without working more than 35 hours a week, including all transportation, forced downtime at work, and preparation. From what I have been learning, short of getting QTS or the North American equivalent, my only only shot at this kind of long-term lifestyle in China is in the biggest cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou). Of these, Shanghai strikes me as the best fit.

[thomthom]

I think I've underestimated the cost of living in Shanghai: I was assuming it would be slightly cheaper than Seoul, which would have been true perhaps only 10 years ago, when in actual fact it looks closer to Tokyo prices.

Still: living solo, no debts to pay back home, only going out 1-2 a week, I'm still optimistic I could save $500 a month. Much more than I did Tokyo.

I refute the suggestion Shanghai is more expensive than London, though! There are some funky cost-of-expat-living tables floating around that do not adequately take into account (a) council/city taxes or (b) the size/centrality of apartments. I've seen plenty of one-bedroom places in Shanghai for around $1000 that are right in amongst the action near the Bund or Nanjing road. For $1000 a month in London, by comparison, you'd never in a million years be that close to Piccadily Circus or Oxford street - you'd be miles away in some East London suburb.

[Voyeur]

Shanghai is more expensive than Seoul? Just in rent? Groceries? Restaurants? Across the board?

[thomthom]

[Shanghai Noon]

Shanghai is more expensive in rent and public transportation, but the extra cost of public transportation can easily be absorbed by the higher salary.

Drinking at bars is in Lujiazui, Puxi, and Biyun is more expensive than drinking in the city center of other cities in China, but how is this part of your cost of living? I'm not putting it down; I enjoy mixed drinks too, but I would never suggest that Shanghai is more expensive just because it has 100RMB martinis. I agree with Banner41. If you need $4,000 per month to live in Shanghai, then you have a spending problem. If you want to pay the same for goods as people do in every other part of China, you can buy online.

[jm21]

3000元 per month seems pretty normal to me for food and alcohol. But I drink quite a bit and like lots of different food. In qingdao at least some meals can set you back. Beef fajitas with salsa, guacomole, and sour cream comes to mind. Also souvlaki with tzatziki. Even if you make most of it on your own, beef, limes, greek yogurt, and avacadoes are expensive. Grilled salmon or seared ahi would be expensive. It adds up. If you like wine it is very expensive here but fortunately I prefer other things. I think I would spend that much most places in the world...except for Australia where it would probably be double that. Most months I spend less but I always budget it on the high side to be safe. Yes you could survive on a lot less but good food and drink are two of the cheapest joys in life.

[newmansone]

[3701 W.119th]

Rent is relatively expensive in Shanghai. You're looking at around RMB3,000 pcm, minimum, for a flat share.

I don't see how anything else is that more expensive, though. Public transport? A bus ride anywhere in the city is 2 kwai. The metro isn't much more. Very cheap to travel intra-city.

Apart from that, the costs are what you make them. If you want to go out drinking a few nights a week in expat bars and eating western fast food, then it's going to be very expensive. Cook your own meals and drink Chinese beers and spirits at home? Costs pretty much the same as anywhere else (very cheap).

Shanghai is a great city, one of the best in the world, and not at all as expensive as some let on. I only lived there for 6 weeks, but it was great. If I ever settle in China long term, it will be there.

[thomthom]