Job Discussion Forums

Wo Dong · Joined: 02 Sep 2014 Posts: 54

I confirmed with my father-in-law that unless you are employed with an SOE or government agency/entity (like an embassy, Peace Corps, UN, etc) there is no law in China that prevents you from having second or even third jobs tutoring, translating, etc. (For those of you who did not see my other thread, my FIL is a former law professor at Renmin University - the Harvard Law School of Asia).

He further says that educational companies and schools cannot withhold release letters nor charge you money for them, nor can they prohibit you from private tutoring - if the students you tutor are not their CURRENT clients. I think this second part is noteworthy because my colleague was refused a release letter because the employer was pissed that he did nit renew his contract and instead began tutoring in the same neighborhood about 1,000 meters away.

Many of you may laugh about getting laws enforced in China but after you learn about the story of teacher Cole who sued two schools and actually won a $30,000 settlement from a large chain, you will stop laughing. Apparently it is not actually the law the school administrators fear (if they have guan xi) but rather the risk of publicity as Cole was paid the settlement the day after a CCTV reporter tried to get an appointment with the school's FAO. The school he sued was operating for 3 years claiming to be an affiliate of BFSU and they were not. The school even used the BFSU logo on all of there brochures and turned out only to have a license to be an "educational consultant" and not a "school", nor "learning center".

What surprised me the most was that Cole was actually hired by another school and his visa was renewed. So there is more respect for the law today than four years when I arrived.

newmansone · Joined: 07 Sep 2014 Posts: 70

Talk about spam bait.

Read the SAFEA contract - a legally binding contract according to the Labor Ministry. In addition, read the Immigration Visa law for the Z visa.

It's all there in black and white regarding this subject of "second jobs."

WOW

Wo Dong · Joined: 02 Sep 2014 Posts: 54

Go to Renmin Law Library and read the 2012 and 2013 labor law amendments and you will see that new laws give foreigners "equal protection and enforcement of the law" as Chinese employees, and no Chinese employee can be prevented from moonlighting "with other employers not considered to be a competitor" BTW... I think the SAFEA contract template you are speaking about is a 2002 document.

Take a translator with you to Renmin or offer student 100 yuan to find the law for you. It will take less than 30 minutes.

Bud Powell · Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736

Sticky: "...This forum is not any one member's personal playground..."

Wo Dong · Joined: 02 Sep 2014 Posts: 54

newmansone · Joined: 07 Sep 2014 Posts: 70

Voyeur · Joined: 03 Jul 2012 Posts: 431

I always thought that the real problem was the immigration rules, not your contract.

mike w · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:43 am Post subject:

WD - you are rapidly becoming very boring. Law about this, and law about that.

Wake up man - it doesn't matter 2 hoots what the law says.

What does matter is the person/officials you are having problems with, and how they interpret and enforce the said law.

That's the way it has always been, and it isn't going to change. You can go to your local PSB and ask them something, and then go to another PSB two blocks away and get a totally different answer to the same question. There is no point in arguing with them, or quoting law - effectually, in that situation they are the law. What the person you are dealing with says at that time is the law.

Time you joined the real world and stopped fantasising about something that just usn't going to happen.

Wo Dong · Joined: 02 Sep 2014 Posts: 54

newmansone · Joined: 07 Sep 2014 Posts: 70

newmansone · Joined: 07 Sep 2014 Posts: 70

vikeologist · Joined: 07 Sep 2009 Posts: 600

OP- You're talking nonsense, and dangerous nonsense at that.
If it really is coming from your father in law, stop listening to the ignorant buffoon.

water rat · Joined: 30 Aug 2014 Posts: 1098 Location: North Antarctica

Thank you for you time and effort Wo Dong. You stick to your guns. Of course you're FIL would know more about this topic than some random ESL teacher on Dave's Forum.

Some people will do anything rather than admit they are wrong. That one fellow is so ridiculous he actually attacks your nose expression. Talk about grasping at straws. Then he confuses the words 'opinion' and 'opinions' entirely missing that there is no real difference unless one is nitpicking.

But while we are nose-picking, erm, I meant nitpicking, saying that opinions are like noses is a simile, not a metaphor.

To be fair though, emoticons lack noses Sad

however they're very opinionated, ... and there is actually an episode of SpongeBob in which Patrick the starfish covets a nose.

Small point: you refer to some of Mr Powell's 2012 posts, but he did not become a member until July 2013, as you can read beneath his name. Wink

wangdaning · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 3154

Chinese and foreigners under the same labor code implies one thing. Chinese are free to work wherever, but foreigners must come to the country under contract with one place. To say that we can go down to the local KFC to find a job might sound okay under the code, but actually you would be in breach of immigration policies. We are expats, not Chinese. How many Chinese must apply for an FEC or register with the police? Rhetorical I know, but you are conflating things. The labor department makes rules on labor, might be nice if you have a disagreement, but they do not make rules on immigration or foreign workers position.

PS I would not hire him as representation

Wo Dong · Joined: 02 Sep 2014 Posts: 54

Ignornace may be convenient to make an argument here but it fools nobody but yourself. Until you make a trip to a law library (Renmin University has the best one in China) you will be talking out of your ass.

I stand by my FIL and the law books anyone can read by visiting the above law library. So if you want to sort fact from fiction - make the trip or remain ignorant. Your choice. Here is the bottom line...

A 2012 and 2013 Central government law in China supersedes any municipal, provincial, and central law from 2002. I am not holier than anyone. I just did my homework on this subject and am confident in what I learned and what my FIL confirmed. I don't think many recruiters have a JD in labor law nor were law professors at Renmin U. so I will keep trusting my FIL for accurate and truthful information about Chinese labor laws. It is now LEGALLY okay to moonlight with a second job so long as you are not "competing" with your first employer (probably influenced by their harmony doctrines)