Job Discussion Forums

water rat · Joined: 30 Aug 2014 Posts: 1098 Location: North Antarctica

I am not sure whether to post this in the job-related or off topic section. I suppose it will depend on your replies.

I have recently seen that a few of you have offhandedly remarked that you prefer China to (South) Korea by far.

So do I! And yet I quite liked Korea. The greatest thing, IMHO, was that theirs is a government that is actually concerned with the welfare of the people. I never expected that: especially as I come from the United States of America which really ought to change it's motto from e pluribus unum to Get back to work!

All that aside, I know I had to work hard in Korea and they all do. Everyone works hard in China too "eating bitterness" is their idiom for it, but I don't particularly have to, and I appreciate that and it's worth the extra money I don't make.

So that's my reason for preferring China, but how about the rest of you who prefer China to Korea: what are your reasons?

(If you prefer Korea to China, you are also welcome to reply)

rioux · Joined: 26 Apr 2012 Posts: 880

Korea wants nothing to do with an old geezer like me.

Guerciotti · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject:

Same here. Old ugly geezers can get hired in China.

direshark · Joined: 12 Apr 2014 Posts: 90 Location: Qingdao, China

Hmm..

1) Beyond ESL: Main thing for me was looking out beyond ESL. I wanted to learn Mandarin, and thought that knowledge of China (combined with my graduate education) could offer career possibilities in the future.

2) Racism: This partially figured into my thinking:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

3) Experience: Heard many accounts of teachers with previous employment in both countries that portrayed China considerably more positively. (To some extent, this reflects Reason #2.)

4) University: Wanted to teach students at a university. Have graduate education so it's much more my environment. I was led to believe that finding a university job in KTown without more TEFL credentials and experience would be much more difficult.

Hatcher · Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 602

I was in Korea for a long time and moved to China. There are marked differences.

Mostly, when Korea brought in new rules for visas, China became far more attractive for E visa holders.

Its a very different set up here in China but I am not teaching ESL, rather sciences.

newmansone · Joined: 07 Sep 2014 Posts: 70

I think the criminal record check has far more to do with things than "age" as claimed by others. Already in China gives you some leeway on criminal record checks, but it won't last.

Alien abductee · Joined: 08 Jun 2014 Posts: 527 Location: Kuala Lumpur

Break out the champagne!!!

asiannationmc · Joined: 13 Aug 2014 Posts: 1342

rogerwilco · Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549

One thing that I have noticed is that my students consider 60 to be "too old".
When I ask them to describe themselves at age 60, they tell me that they will probably be too sick or weak to work !

water rat · Joined: 30 Aug 2014 Posts: 1098 Location: North Antarctica

jm21 · Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 406

If you worked the kind of hours most Chinese workers do 60 is pretty old. It's refreshing that people have realistic views on age here.

In the west I think many boomers in the 60+ range are totally delusional. Think they'll live forever and their experience makes them the perfect candidate...when in actuality they are on a dozen meds, could keel over any day, and many are not really fit to do their jobs anymore. Lots of old folks over here teaching and for the most part they are nowhere near as good as they think they are.

rogerwilco · Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549

asiannationmc · Joined: 13 Aug 2014 Posts: 1342

Voyeur · Joined: 03 Jul 2012 Posts: 431

I came to China after Korea because China seems to be the new Korea, which had been the new Japan.
ESL is still trending up, as an industry, here; in Korea it's trending down. Of course teachers are still swimming upstream salary and working hours-wise as a result of supply and demand factors, but that is everywhere.
My experience is that China is still a very opaque, inefficient market. There's not much information dissemination with regards to salaries--some people have great jobs and others have bad ones, but think they are okay. This murkiness can work for and against a teacher. It's hard to really know where you stand, but for now there's still an element of the 'Wild East'. A good teacher who works hard, makes the right connections, and gets lucky can get a pretty sweet job in time. Even without a lot of formal qualifications. Or so I'm told. Maybe that's just me believing in myths...

jm21 · Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 406

And my experience has been that the old folks are great at patting each other's backs and talking about how great they are when in reality they are outdated, slow, have few public speaking skills, and are much less skilled than they think. Some are certainly dedicated and really put out an effort, but that's only part of it. I'm not sure I've met one old teacher who uses the computers in the classroom for anything but movies. That is somewhat shocking, particularly in China where the students written English is so much stroger than their oral English.

Even my mom, who is a retired teacher, had her doubts about those teaching beyond 60 or so. The brain starts to go. Simple as that.

My school had a guy in his 70's who couldn't even get to the classroom and wasn't teaching the students squat. Just waiting to die in China.

The typical Chinese worker is not a professor. The typical Chinese worker works 9-12 hours per day, 6 days a week, and has no paid vacation except for the national holidays when it is difficult to travel. I find it ridiculous that someone has lived in China and thinks that the typical worker is a Chinese professor. By the way, a lot of old English teachers look down on Chinese people just like that.