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CELTA dilemma
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Sasha on this one. Plus, this isn't about the quality or legitimacy of the MA TESOL program; it just wasn't the right degree program for the OP.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not an either/or choice as someone upthread framed it. It is not a choice of taking the job OR getting proper teacher training. A CELTA (or similar) is not the ONLY route to "proper teacher training." The opportunities for professional development on the JET program vastly exceed a CELTA training. The interim job has low enough hours that you can seek out opportunies to observe, be observed, teach under supervision, develop a mentoring relationship, etc., etc. Some schools will offer this; more often you will have to be proactive and identify or create such possibilities for yourself. But it is not hard to do, and you seem to be a good candidate--conscientious about wanting to teach well, and energetic about pursuing training. You may also look outside of your school for opportunities in the larger community to do a few hours or more of supervised teaching.

And although I think a CELTA is unnecessary in your case (and I don't often say that), you might consider a "stand-alone teaching practicum." I used to have a list of every place offering stand-alone supervised TP, but I can't locate it just now. Coventry House in Toronto, ITTO in Guadalajara, and ITTP in Prague are three that come to mind. (ITTP has received some poor evaluations, so perhaps not a first choice.) Coventry House also has a program where you can do the TP at locations other than Toronto. Anyway, this might give you the piece of the CELTA you need the most, without the timing conflict or cost. These programs cost about a quarter of the CELTA cost, with some variation, and are typically five days to two weeks long for the on-site programs, and an individualized schedule for off-site locations. This might give you the confidence you need, and serve as your bridge from grad student to teacher.

.
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kpjf



Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In terms of potential employers, you haven't stated where you want to teach in the future and in what type of teaching situation (e.g., schoolchildren, adults in a language school, university students, military, ESP...).


Secondary school students or university students

Sashadroogie wrote:
Says more about the entry requirements for some MAs than the industry as a whole. How does one get a place on a Master's course in teaching English with no previous experience and no practical training in the course itself? As paradoxical as it sounds, the roadsweeper with a Celta stands a better chance of delivering some sort of effective lesson than somebody with some of the MAs floating about there...


Sorry, I do have some experience.


I just haven't been in a classroom in a while and thought that from the other thread http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=83084&start=180&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= that regulars here felt it a bad idea to accumulate experience without having first done a CELTA i.e. the argument being that without this certificate you develop experience, albeit in a bad way.

nightsintodreams wrote:
Pfft, this is the JET program we're talking about. Most JETs have zero teaching experience or teaching related qualifications and do just fine.


Just to clarify, it wasn't for JET, rather my point was if I did JET for a few years I don't think I'd have a month's holiday to do a CELTA in between.

suphanburi wrote:



For a legitimate MATESOL holder who will be going to work as a TA in a mainstream school the CELTA offers NOTHING other than lighter pockets.

All of that said... if the MATESOL was bought at one of those "for-profit-US-Universities" for $1499 and some "life experience" then all bets are off and a CELTA would be money well spent.

.


Just to mention: the MA in TESOL I did is from a reputable university which was recently in the top 200 in QS world ranking. Also, just for the record, in my city I wasn't spoilt for choices on MA Tesol programmes so this was the only one I could choose (with no practical element).

psychedelicacy wrote:
This is madness. Am I reading this correctly? You have an MA TESOL yet want to supplement it...with CELTA?

CELTA is an entry-level qualification. That means that you could be a road-sweeper, do CELTA for a month, and get an ELT job, potentially. With an MA, you should have a deep and comprehensive knowledge of ELT. The fact that someone can possess a master's in ELT yet not feel confident about teaching nor possess any teaching experience just shows what a complete joke of an industry it really is.


Psychedelicacy, the reason for that is after reading the thread above that I linked.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm absolutely clueless, lacking in confidence etc as I have learnt a great deal in my TESOL course on SLA, ELT and so forth. I did pick up a lot from my MA in TESOL, no doubt. I don't have that much experience, and just hadn't been in a classroom in a while and then when I did my very first day I remembered the thread and it made me think about not possessing a CELTA. Maybe it was just some feelings on the first day as the second day went absolutely fine.
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kpjf



Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xie Lin wrote:
This is not an either/or choice as someone upthread framed it. It is not a choice of taking the job OR getting proper teacher training. A CELTA (or similar) is not the ONLY route to "proper teacher training." The opportunities for professional development on the JET program vastly exceed a CELTA training. The interim job has low enough hours that you can seek out opportunies to observe, be observed, teach under supervision, develop a mentoring relationship, etc., etc. Some schools will offer this; more often you will have to be proactive and identify or create such possibilities for yourself. But it is not hard to do, and you seem to be a good candidate--conscientious about wanting to teach well, and energetic about pursuing training. You may also look outside of your school for opportunities in the larger community to do a few hours or more of supervised teaching.

And although I think a CELTA is unnecessary in your case (and I don't often say that), you might consider a "stand-alone teaching practicum." I used to have a list of every place offering stand-alone supervised TP, but I can't locate it just now. Coventry House in Toronto, ITTO in Guadalajara, and ITTP in Prague are three that come to mind. (ITTP has received some poor evaluations, so perhaps not a first choice.) Coventry House also has a program where you can do the TP at locations other than Toronto. Anyway, this might give you the piece of the CELTA you need the most, without the timing conflict or cost. These programs cost about a quarter of the CELTA cost, with some variation, and are typically five days to two weeks long for the on-site programs, and an individualized schedule for off-site locations. This might give you the confidence you need, and serve as your bridge from grad student to teacher.

.


Thanks a lot Xie Lin, that's very useful. Prague would be the most likely one out of the list due to my location, but you do say it doesn't have such a good reputation. Maybe there are others in Europe?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Experience prior to training, and a training course without any practice or feedback? Wouldnt be considered of value. Roadsweeper with Celta has at least a bit.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Thanks a lot Xie Lin, that's very useful. Prague would be the most likely one out of the list due to my location, but you do say it doesn't have such a good reputation. Maybe there are others in Europe?



Yes, there were a couple of providers in Europe, but more, as I recall, in Canada, since it is a module of the blended delivery system approved by TESL Canada for a number of certificate, diploma, and degree programs offered there. Coventry House in Toronto, VIA in Vancouver, and the University of Calgary, for example, offer a stand-alone TP. I think the requirements for TESL CA approval are something like 10 hours of observation, supervised lesson planning, and 10 hours of observed teaching with feedback and assessment. All offer on-site TP, but some providers will also help you set up a supervised TP at a school more convenient to you.

I couldn't find anything on the ITTP website--it seems to be a part of their on-line certificate now, so either my memory is incorrect (most likely), or they have reconfigured the program. It might be worth contacting ITTO in Guadalajara to ask if they offer their stand-alone supervised "Teaching Practices" module at any of their other course locations. You could also check with a few European course providers known for their interest in teacher development, perhaps The Berlin School of English, ILS English, Oxford TEFL (Barcelona and Prague) just off the top of my head.

.
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kyivkyiv



Joined: 08 Aug 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Kiev, Ukraine

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

suphanburi wrote:

He will earn his stripes working as an English speaking assistant (read - walking, breathing, phonetics and phonology machine) under "the observation" of a licensed teacher (or so the theory goes).

Let's see...
- 6 hours of observed practicum under the guidance of some trainer with a BA and a CELTA vs
- 1000 hours of observed practicum (for which he will get paid) with a licensed teacher in a G7 country.

There is no way that a 120 hour CELTA has anywhere near the depth or breadth of an MA (even if it was the shittiest of on-line-one-year-programs).

For a legitimate MATESOL holder who will be going to work as a TA in a mainstream school the CELTA offers NOTHING other than lighter pockets.


I suppose that depends on the quality of the licensed - a term which can be used quite liberally in most parts of the world - teacher. In my humble opinion, the OP should first consider the quality of the local teachers. Would British Council hire these locally trained and licensed teachers? If not (and 99% of the time, BC would not hire them), do you think they would still be a reputable source of input for a newly qualified teacher?

I too once worked in Asia as an assistant language teacher and had a major problem with a local teacher who refused to stop repeating everything I said in her terrible pronunciation. Here is one example that I'll never forget: /ˈzi: ˈgi:ɹi:ɫ ˈɹi:ds ˈzi: ˈpʰi:ɹpi:ɫ ˈpʰi:k/

Prior to having done the CELTA, I'd have agreed that working with a locally licensed teacher was enough. But after doing CELTA and getting a job where I work with many people who have DELTAs, I can assure you that most pubic school English teachers don't have what it takes to be a DELTA caliber teacher. I think the fact that pay rates for local teachers at places like British Council, International House, Bell, etc are 2.5-4x the rate of what public school teachers earn also indicates public school English teachers aren't the most qualified bunch around.
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