Job Discussion Forums

[rxk22]

[Black_Beer_Man]

[thomthom]

[Black_Beer_Man]

I've lived in both Tokyo and Seoul. After reading this thread, I am still asking myself why anybody would say Tokyo is a superior city to Seoul.

They're about equal to me in terms of offerings to the ESL teacher. For example, Korea has the Ansan (Jisan) Music Festival which has pretty much the same artists as the Fuji Rock Festival in Japan. http://www.asiarooms.com/en/community/festivals-and-events/music-festivals-asia/ In fact, it's even better because it's easily accessible from Seoul while the Fuji Rock Fest requires an overnight stay from Tokyo.

If you're into art galleries, cool architecture and fine restaurants, Tokyo blows Seoul away. However, not many ESL teachers can afford these restaurants (especially on our shrinking salaries).

If you do like to party, in Tokyo, you can't get home until 6 am because your only affordable option is to catch the next day's first train. I've never understood why Tokyo is not on par with other great cities of the world like Berlin which has all-night subway service.

After a while, walking around in Tokyo to look at the cool office towers becomes less interesting.

I'd like the Tokyo lovers on Dave's to please explain what exactly makes this city superior to Seoul other than the examples I have provided here.

I just can't think of any.

[Maitoshi]

Trains stop when they do as a sort of de facto curfew. It encourages a healthier lifestyle among most.

[nightsintodreams]

I've never lived in Tokyo or Seoul, but I've been out in both.

Why do I prefer Tokyo?

Well, in my limited experience, Japanese people are much friendlier and girls are easier to approach. There's very little rowdiness or rudeness in Tokyo and I've only ever once seen a fight.

As for the money differences, well I've never not been able to afford Tokyo so that's not really too much of a problem for me and I'd actually argue that Tokyo is cheaper than other cities in Japan for going out as there's a lot of competition.

There's far more variety in restaurants in Japan, actually in everything. That was my impression anyway.

Also, expats in Tokyo aren't 90% American. You can meet people from all over the world. That's a real plus for me!

[nightsintodreams]

Anyway, the question should really be "Which has better nightlife Seoul or Osaka?".

[Black_Beer_Man]

[nightsintodreams]

Oh, I must have misunderstood. I thought this was a discussion about which has the better nightlife. In that case...

-food - If money isn't a factor then Tokyo wins hands down, much more variety.
-friendliness of local people- Hmm, I'm really not sure. I didn't find Koreans very friendly, but neither are people from Tokyo unless they're out drinking. At least in Japan people don't stick their middle finger up to your face.
-pollution - no idea, but Seoul stinks and is dirty in many areas, whereas almost everywhere in Tokyo is very clean.
-parks - No idea, don't think I went to any parks in Korea
-apartment size- no idea, but I's guess you get a better sized apartment in Seoul
-cultural offerings- Tokyo hands down
-taxes- no idea
-safety Tokyo wins hands down again

I'd add one more...

-cost of living- gotta give that one to Seoul

I mention Osaka because it's my favourite place in Japan and is a far better place to go out/live than Tokyo, by far. This topic seemed to become "Which city is better Seoul or Tokyo?", I was just saying that if we're going to compare the best city in Korea to the best city in Japan then it should be Seoul vs Osaka in my opinion.

[Black_Beer_Man]

And here's how Tokyo and Seoul measure up in my opinion.

- food (Equal. Tokyo has better high end restaurants, but generally Korean dishes are tastier.)

- friendliness of the local people to foreigners (Seoul. Koreans often smiled to me and tried to make small talk in simple or broken English. This very rarely happens in Tokyo.)

- affordability (cost of living relative to average salary) (Seoul. Salaries have held steady in Korea while they have actually decreased over the past 20 years in Tokyo. An ALT in Tokyo in the 90's made at least 250,000 yen / month now often makes 220,000 ~ 240,000 yen)

- pollution (Tokyo has less. Seoul has too much traffic congestion especially in the morning.)

-parks (Equal. Both cities have good parks, but the ones in Seoul are quite hilly and are best suited to hikers.)

- apartment size (Seoul. They tend to be 30% - 50% larger than ones you find in Tokyo. Plus, they have a unique floor heating system that keeps your feet warm in winter.)

-cultural offerings (in addition to nightlife). (Tokyo - especially museums, but there is no shortage of things to do in Seoul. You can even go to the cinema in Seoul and watch a movie for 11000 won / 1100 yen. Try to find that in Tokyo.)

- taxes (Seoul. Much lower taxes in general and does not have Tokyo's expensive city ward tax to pay after working for a year. The Japanese gov is promising more consumption tax hikes to give you even less buying power than you have now).

- and safety. (Tokyo is probably the world's safest city. Who can compete with that?)

[Black_Beer_Man]

[nightsintodreams]

[thomthom]

Even if I felt Seoul and Tokyo to be totally even, with all social/cultural/financial things considered, I think the climate would still tip the balance in favour of Tokyo. I couldn't handle those arid -15c winter nights in Seoul!

I will admit a good case can be made for the superiority of Seoul. For an ESL teacher, at least. However, when it comes the next half a dozen cities of either country, then it really is not much of a contest. In Japan there are plenty of cities that would be as-good if not better places to live in than the capital. In Korea, on the other hand, there is a huge steep drop-off in cosmopolitanism and infrastructure once you leave the Seoul area; the rapidity and lateness of Korea's development becomes immediately apparent. The gap between Seoul and Busan is much wider than the gap between Tokyo and Osaka, or between London and Manchester, for that matter. (This isn't a bad analogy: in the UK we're always anxious about the dominance of London, but compared to Korea there are dozens of evenly-spread important cities outside of the capital. For a similarly sized country, Korea is way way more capital-city-centric.)

[thomthom]

[RM1983]

Interesting thing at the moment is I have had a few Koreans tell me they prefer chubby or skinny guys to ripped guys. A fat man isnt viewed particularly negatively there, in my opinion. If youre a girl it's a different story.

Theyre definitely shallow. Just count the selfies going on.

I got called handsome a lot and fat a lot and I dont think Im particularly either. Adults in Japan hold off on saying the same stuff but kids are a different story.

Koreans like to box off other countries into stereotypes for sure. I lived there with my American ex and a regular conversation might go

Driver "where you come from?"
Me "England"
Driver "Ah yes! You are gentleman. Do you know Manchester United? Good country. Where are you from? (To ex"
Ex "America"
Driver shakes head, makes slight hissing sound "bad country"
Me "lol"

Perhaps though you could say, when a korean approaches me they find out Im English, theyll talk shit at me about being a gentleman, manchester united and so on. Whereas a Japanese might see me, think "oh shit a foreigner, and quickly move on"