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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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 Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| RW8677 wrote: |
| direshark wrote: |
A standard contract will tell you how many hours you have to work a week with a guaranteed monthly income and then list the benefits - end of story. In my case, it's 16 hours max per week and 4600 RMB monthly, plus paid airfare, housing, travel bonuses, etc. |
People are still accepting 4600?? - woah. Not really in a position to advise others when you accept that garbage contract. |
The superfluous snark-fu aimed at direshark here is not just unnecessary, but also inappropriate, I think.
What is an acceptable or unacceptable salary for one person and another can be quite different, and there are way too many possible factors involved in that determination to warrant pissing-in-the-snow contests on that subject. |
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bestteacher2012
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| direshark wrote: |
| In my case, it's 16 hours max per week and 4600 RMB monthly, plus paid airfare, housing, travel bonuses, etc. |
Cut down the hours to 6 to 8 per week and then it's not a bad offer. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| mysterytrain wrote: |
| RW8677 wrote: |
| direshark wrote: |
A standard contract will tell you how many hours you have to work a week with a guaranteed monthly income and then list the benefits - end of story. In my case, it's 16 hours max per week and 4600 RMB monthly, plus paid airfare, housing, travel bonuses, etc. |
People are still accepting 4600?? - woah. Not really in a position to advise others when you accept that garbage contract. |
The superfluous snark-fu aimed at direshark here is not just unnecessary, but also inappropriate, I think.
What is an acceptable or unacceptable salary for one person and another can be quite different, and there are way too many possible factors involved in that determination to warrant pissing-in-the-snow contests on that subject. |
4500 to 5500 RMB pm would cover the majority of public uni FT positions in China.
The other main elements are as direshark says, teaching hours (max 20 but hopefully 16-1 , accom on campus and airfare allowance of say 10K.
Don't know how the 'cool' emoticon crept in. I can't seem to edit it out. The figure is 16-18 contact hours. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:56 am Post subject: |
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OP:
If you will be new to China, look into a public university, not a 2-year college. And make sure that the university has an English department.
The university experience is a lot easier for a newbie for too many reasons to list here.
Widen your search to include abroadchina.org and esljobs.com. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
4500 to 5500 RMB pm would cover the majority of public uni FT positions in China.
The other main elements are as direshark says, teaching hours (max 20 but hopefully 16-1, accom on campus and airfare allowance of say 10K.
Don't know how the 'cool' emoticon crept in. I can't seem to edit it out. The figure is 16-18 contact hours. |
That is one of the factors I was thinking of: the salary and the rest, as quoted by direshark, are quite typical, from what I understand, for uni jobs in China.
In my first (and only, to date) teaching job in China, I was offered 4500 RMB a month for 20 class hours (forty-five minutes each, or forty, can't remember) a week, plus (private) housing, airfare reimbursement, visa and FEC costs paid, etc to teach conversational English in a public middle school. This for someone with no actual prior teaching experience, and (at the time) not even a TEFL cert. Figuring in that I could typically live decently enough (by my standards) on not more than 1500 RMB a month and save the rest, plus the seven-week, fully-paid vacation in January and most of February, it was not a bad deal for me at all, at the time (late 2010 - early 2011).
Now, I was single at the time, with no other mouth to feed but my own (and a cat's ... well, ok, I wasn't quite single), and this makes a world of difference.
To elaborate a bit more on the variety of salary vs job scenarios, and the stupidity of nit-picking another person's salary: let's say that I am currently teaching in a private (K-12) school in another country, on my second contract with the school and taking home the equivalent of just under 8000 CNY / month. Let's stipulate further that the school wants me to extend the contract for another two to three years, and will probably be willing to offer me another significant rise in salary to do so, putting me potentially in the range of 10,000 CNY per month (take home). They also pay annual bonus, re-signing bonus and return flight to home country for r'n'r / family visit at the end of each two-year contract. They don't offer free housing, but housing is not expensive where I'm located. Paid holiday time altogether adds up to about two months out of the year (not bad at all).
However, I don't like the city I'm located in much, already feel having "been here too long already" after more than three years, have to be at work forty five hours a week (sometimes a bit more), teaching 30+ class sessions (thirty-five to forty minutes each) per week (albeit with very little prep time required) to classes of really sweet but very undisciplined and noisy primary school kids (I actually enjoy teaching kids, just prefer less boisterous ones), so there are downsides to the situation as well.
Let's say my other options would include (just leaving it to jobs typically available in China):
- a university or public school job with salary, benefits, and conditions similar to what direshark and I both said
- a private language training school, twenty-five class hours per week, salary maybe between 7-9000 RMB / month, teaching mostly adults, mostly kids, or more or less equal mix of both, other benefits about the same, except .. much less paid holiday time ... much less time off, period.
- a kindergarden job teaching sweet and annoying tots, maybe 25-30 class hours a week, salary 9-11,000, holiday time similar to training schools above
Surely there are others that I can't think of off the top of my head, but I think these are some of the most typical / plentiful kinds of jobs to be had.
It shouldn't be hard to see that it's all about: what you want (or don't want) out of (or in) the job; what kind of workload you feel comfortable with or aspire to at this particular juncture of your life; how much money you need or want to make (for reasons other than just something to piss in the snow about) based on your status, lifestyle, age, temperament, and many other individual factors; where you want to live; and probably others that slip my mind.
So if I choose to leave an 8,000 RMB / month job, or even a 10,000 per month job, for a 7 or even a 4,5, I'll have my reasons (and I would likely choose either a 6-7 with lower class hours, work hours and overall headaches, or else a 9-11 in a better location, with similar headaches).
In some cases, for inexperienced teachers breaking in, 4500 a month may be the best they can do, or it may just be "good enough". I know just from reading this board occasionally over the last four years that there are a good number of FT's with several years of experience, happily working low hours at university jobs with low salaries, low overhead and few complaints. Putting them down based on the numbers is a sign of an immature mind - my opinion. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: China Bound: Some Questions |
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| jaj wrote: |
On my contract, it states 90 teaching hours a month are required but later it refers to 8 hours shifts. Then it brings up workshops, meetings and demo classes that don't fall under monthly teaching hours. Is this standard? Also, it says if students cancel lessons, I don't get paid. Is that standard too? Trying to figure out what my real income and hours will be against what's in writing.
Also, regarding housing. I'm supposed to check into a hotel for a few days while an apartment is found for me. Is this simpler than it sounds? Anybody know how much I need to afford a hotel for a few nights and downpay on an apartment? I'm going north to Dalian.
Thanks! |
On the other foot ... like they all said ... RUN!  |
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Lancy Bloom
Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| This is a good contract. Unlike Hongzhou Hellen's deals, you don't have to pay them to work. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Not to brag I make about 4500 rmb A WEEK at my current job |
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thechangling
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:57 am Post subject: |
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4500 is too low for Middle School's in China which often bottom out at about 6000 and and rise up to 15,000+ for some of the teaching certified positions.
4500 use to be bottom of the barrel for a bog standard uni position in China but that's now either 5000 or 5500 depending on who you talk to. |
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PittsburghSound
Joined: 27 Aug 2014
Posts: 103
Location: Colombia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| Visa requirements are stricter now, so a newbie in China will probably have to take whatever he/she can get for his/her first job. Your prospects increase markedly after you put your first year in. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| kungfuman wrote: |
| Not to brag I make about 4500 rmb A WEEK at my current job |
Yep ... just like I said:
| mystrerytrain wrote: |
| a sign of an immature mind |
Not to brag? Grow up and get over yourself.
...  |
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jm21
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 406
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
4500 is too low for Middle School's in China which often bottom out at about 6000 and and rise up to 15,000+ for some of the teaching certified positions.
4500 use to be bottom of the barrel for a bog standard uni position in China but that's now either 5000 or 5500 depending on who you talk to. |
I think you can get around 15k without certification, depending on your degrees and whatnot. But it would be teaching something besides just basic oral English. Certified maybe 25-30k total compensation?
Plenty of places that still pay 4,500. Some people don't really care that much. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| mysterytrain wrote: |
| kungfuman wrote: |
| Not to brag I make about 4500 rmb A WEEK at my current job |
Yep ... just like I said:
| mystrerytrain wrote: |
| a sign of an immature mind |
Not to brag? Grow up and get over yourself.
... |
Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful - and make more money than you... |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I certainly don't have any reason to hate you, faceless stranger (in spite of the "cartoonish" posturing), but I will point out that (in the light of your recent posts in this thread) you are taking valuable oxygen that could probably be put to more productive use by sentient beings. Then again, the air quality in much of China being what it is now, breathe away.  |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| The only thing I find cartoonish is that in this day and age someone will allow themselves to be exploited by accepting a substandard salary of 4500y a month |
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