Job Discussion Forums

[johnslat]

Dear SheikMilkShake,

Of course there are no brothels in Saudi - just as there is no alcohol nor any pork products.

Regards,
John

[nomad soul]

As of this posting, the Labor Ministry's English version of www.laboreducation.gov.sa is still under construction but should be worth a look once it's completed.

Labor Ministry launches portal for expatriates
By Irfan Mohammed, Arab News | 17 September 2014
Source: http://www.arabnews.com/saudi-arabia/news/631411

JEDDAH: In a bid to prevent workers’ rights violations in the Kingdom, the Ministry of Labor has launched an exclusive Web portal to educate workers about their rights and how to avail them.

The Web portal www.laboreducation.gov.sa launched on Tuesday aims to boost awareness about workers’ rights and the rules that regulate the relationship between the employee and employer in the Kingdom. While the Web portal’s Arabic version has comprehensive information, the English version is still under construction, according to sources in the Labor ministry.

The Web portal comes in the light of several reports of exploitation of expatriate workers in particular, due to lack of legal knowledge. The portal provides useful information related to the contact details of relevant authorities, workers’ rights, contractual obligations and wages, working hours, training, qualification, work responsibility, disciplinary rules and the calculation of end of service benefits. It also makes provision for special rights for people with disabilities and women workers.

Sources pointed out that one can also lodge a formal complaint through the Web portal. The sources said that the Labor ministry which is fully automated through an electronic system now intends to extend the same facility for workers to improve the working environment and guarantee the rights of employer and employee.

(End of article)

[J Peasmold Gruntfuttock]

The service we use to check visa status is:

https://www.eserve.com.sa/VVSWeb/

The whole eserve website has made life much easier now but I would offer just one cautionary note... the date of birth is based in the DOB in the Iquama and not In the Passport. It's not a problem here but I have now had the same problem twice at European airports trying to flu back to KSA (once vie Abu Dhabi, and once through Doha). The check-in at Heathrow could not understand why the DOB on my eserve document was not the same as the one in my passport. Our local Gov Office is quite lazy and put 1 January on all Iquamas. Since we do not keep our Iquama when travelling abroad, it made the whole process rather worrying - lots of explaining and showing of photocopies. Anyway - twice biiten: I have now made sure that they gave me a new Iquama and that my DOB is correct and the same as in my passport.

Just thought I would share!

[MixtecaMike]

On the Visa-check site (or the MOI site?) all my family including me are Ethiopians. Even though it's an e-visa, carry a printout for non-Saudi airports, and once we left I printed out another copy which gives the return before date. Actually, it works moderately smoothly, or did so last time.

Edit to keep post vaguely on topic: My employer (direct hire) swaps my iqama and ID card for my passport and vice versa, but I have no problem with that. I keep my dependents' passports and can do an e-visa for them whenever they need one. When we went to Bahrain in the Eid break the MOI thoughtfully sent me an SMS in Arabic that I believe said "Your dependents X, Y, & Z have left the country."

As I got it a day later (and was accompanying them) I'm not sure what the point was, but a nice gesture, all the same.

[nomad soul]

[nomad soul]

Saudi employer has no right to hold your passport
Saudi Gazette report | 3 November 2014
Source: http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20141103223174

RIYADH — Although the Human Rights Commission and Saudi as well as international laws ban employers from holding the passports of their employees, many companies still keep the custody of their workers’ passports against their will.

In July 2000, the Council of Ministers issued a decision preventing employers from holding their employees’ passports. The Cabinet also ordered that the word “kafeel”, or sponsor, be replaced with the word “business owner.” Holding an employee’s passport cannot grant the employer the upper hand in the employer-employee relationship, Abdullah Al-Aqeel, former deputy chairman of executive council, Shaqra Governorate Chamber of Commerce and Industry, told Al-Riyadh Arabic daily. “A passport cannot be used as a document to exercise pressure on an employee. When the passport expires, the employer will have to hand it to the employee for renewal,” Al-Aqeel said.

Khalid Al-Humood, media consultant and an education expert, criticized employers who hold their employees’ passports. Strict enforcement of laws should put an end to the practice of holding passports by employers. An expatriate employee should be responsible for his own passport, Al-Humood said. “An employee who comes to work here should have the right to keep his passport with him,” he said. He suggested that there should be a unified employment contract for all the regions in the Kingdom.

Abdullah Niazi, director of coordination at the Technical and Vocational Training Corporation (TVTC), said a passport is a personal property of the employee and should not be taken away from him. He said some employers think that holding an employee’s passport will prevent him from running away. But this does not act as a deterrent for employees, many of whom run away leaving their passports with their employers.

(End of article)

[lcanupp1964]

In the world’s half-glass of water, MixtecaMike sees the glass as “half-full”

“When we went to Bahrain in the Eid break the MOI thoughtfully sent me an SMS in Arabic that I believe said "Your dependents X, Y, & Z have left the country."

The glass has another “side” though…

“It's to alert male guardians that their dependents (spouse included) have crossed the border. Opponents of this thoughtful government "service" consider it tantamount to family members wearing house-arrest ankle monitors.”

Even though I lean towards nomad soul’s point of view, I do admire MixtecaMike’s ability to still be able to find the wonderment and pixie dust that sweeps across these warm desert winds.

[burgess29]

I have been in Saudi since 2011. My first contractor always kept either the IQAMA or Passport. If I wanted an exit-rentry, he wouldn't provide this until I'd handed over my IQAMA at which point he'd exchange it with my ER Visa and Passport. Then, when I returned from my trip, he'd request my passport back and give me my IQAMA.

Occasionally, I had both documents. On a few occasions, the company gave me my Passport and forgot to ask for the IQAMA. On those occasions, I refused to return the passport and they never made a fuss. I always needed my IQAMA because I used to drive to Riyadh from Khafji and there were always multiple checkpoints where guards would inspect ALL documents, and you had to have the originals.

My new employer in Riyadh currently has my passport, but we've been told we can be issued multiple-exit re-entry VISA's. But seeing is believing. At present they hold my passport, but I've requested its return and my boss has agreed to that.

burgess29

[Captain Willard]

This is not correct. A passport is the property of the sovereign government which issued it. It exists for the benefit of the bearer, but it is not his or her personal property. The government which issued it can cancel it or demand it be returned at any time.

[nomad soul]

Sure, and we've been over that before. However, it's the responsibility of the bearer to safeguard it. Regardless, that doesn't negate the fact that employers are prohibited from keeping employees' passports.

[clyde]

Bear in mind that this is a country that only outlawed slavery in the 60s. The mentality remains and manifests itself in the Kefala system. The idea that you can hold a person's passport is as outdated as the notion that women might damage their ovaries whilst driving. Will this intellectual swamp of a country ever clue in? I am in Oman now and wow what a difference. Logic, reason, kindness and efficiency are all here in spades. Seriously, we really need to stop going to this Saudi shit hole until they figure out what humanity means. All of their neighbours have done so. Why are they still so sick and backwards?

[psychedelicacy]

My passport was in my possession both times I worked for contractors in Saudi.

[nomad soul]

Note: The Council's Decision 166 in 2000 prohibits the practice of withholding workers’ passports, so their "recent" announcement is essentially a reiteration of that decision.


Employers reluctant to allow free movement of expats: paranoia over passports
Saudi Gazette report | January 30, 2015
Source: http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20150131232161

THE Council of Ministers recently announced that withholding the passports and other official documents of expatriates by their employers is a legal violation. Many Saudi sponsors continue to withhold the passports and official documents of their expatriate employees to ensure they enter and exit the country on their terms. Lawyers have argued that the act is a violation of the law and human rights of foreign workers, Al-Riyadh daily reported.

Hamed Saeed said there should be legal ramifications for expatriates who misuse their official documents. “This way, sponsors will not feel it necessary to confiscate any papers,” he said, while adding that withholding expatriates’ passports is a harmless practice, as most workers do not need their passports as long as they are in the Kingdom. Expatriates only need their passports when they travel outside the Kingdom. Unauthorized exits are what sponsors hope to prevent from happening, as there is no compensation for their monetary losses. However, the security authorities and other governmental bodies are always keen to protect expatriates’ rights,” he said.

Saeed accused expatriates of exploiting the Kingdom’s legal system. “They are completely obedient and punctual during the first three months of their arrival in the Kingdom, as they know that the first three months are the probationary period. But once their residence permits are issued, they transform completely and run away from their sponsors to look for anyone who is willing to hire an illegal expatriate for better pay,” he added.

Saeed went on to say that whenever an expatriate worker runs away, the real victim is the Saudi sponsor who will not be compensated for his loss and will have to go through the procedures of sponsoring another foreign worker who may then do exactly the same thing all over again. Saeed cited the laws of several Gulf countries that allegedly protect the rights of both expatriates and their local sponsors. “Expatriates are expected to have a work identity card and submit their bank account information. When expatriates wish to travel, they must produce two witnesses that can identify them. In the event an expatriate worker resigns, he has to obtain security clearance as part of final-exit procedures,” he said.

In 2012, an Asian driver had killed his 70-year-old sponsor and wounded the sponsor’s 65-year-old wife in the eastern city of Al-Khobar allegedly for not returning his passport. The man went on to hang himself but the police were at the scene in time to stop him. The sponsor, who was a retiree banker, refused to give his driver his passport back but promised him that he would return it after Haj.

The official spokesman of the General Directorate of Passports Lt. Col. Ahmad Al-Luhaidan said it is illegal for a sponsor to withhold the passports of his expatriate employees. “The responsibility of a passport is on its owner. The General Directorate of Passports has a department allocated for sponsors and expatriates’ issues. With the fingerprint system, the directorate is able to track the status of expatriates and ensure that no expatriate permitted to leave the country illegally,” said Al-Luhaidan.

Mohammad Ahmad accused the directorate of failing to solve problems between expatriates and sponsors. “The Ministry of Interior needs to build a new and more efficient infrastructure for expatriates’ affairs. The fingerprint system does not include all of the expatriates in the Kingdom as many of them came into the country before the implementation of the system. The directorate should request the personal approval of the sponsor whenever the expatriate wishes to leave the country, even for a vacation,” said Ahmad.

Khalid Al-Fakhry, lawyer and legal consultant at the National Society for Human Rights, said withholding an expatriate’s passport is a form of human trafficking. “There are other procedures and security measures provided by the General Directorate of Passports to ensure the stay of expatriates. It is up to the Ministry of Labor to address the gap between expatriates’ rights and sponsors’ awareness of the laws and regulations,” said Al-Fakhry. He added that the Ministry of Labor should provide insurance and compensation to sponsors if their expatriate workers flee. “The bank details of expatriates should also be registered so they can be held responsible for monetary compensation if a breach of contract occurs.”

(End of article)

[Cattyforyou]

This could become a big deal because of identity theft. Is there any way for the foreign embassies to step in and get serious about stopping it?

[nomad soul]