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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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 Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Victory Gin! |
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| grahamb wrote: |
As Orwell might have said, "Two drinks good, four drinks better."  |
Hee hee!  |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:47 pm Post subject: Orwell that ends well |
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| Ah yes, O'Brien the torturer. He gave new meaning to the phrase "party animal". Obviously inspired by those nice chaps of the NKVD! |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Nope, not entirely. There's a small but significant tendency in British literature to cast doubtful characters as being of Irish extraction. O'Brien is one, but Morriarty, Lyndon, and even Kim are others. The idea being that while they look like us, might even sound like us, they do not act or think like us. They aren't like we are at all, and so cannot be trusted. In fact their duplicity is heightened by their outward similarities. The message being, usually, "Don't be taken in by these traitors, no matter their charming appearance!"
If O'Brien had been named Ivanov, then the character would lack this psychological tension. Goldstein, on the other hand, was designed to be totally foreign and inimical to the Englsh or IngSoc way of life.
Poor Katie is clearly paying the price for Koreans' deep knowledge of British literature tropes ; ) |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Nope, not entirely. There's a small but significant tendency in British literature to cast doubtful characters as being of Irish extraction. O'Brien is one, but Morriarty, Lyndon, and even Kim are others. The idea being that while they look like us, might even sound like us, they do not act or think like us. They aren't like we are at all, and so cannot be trusted. In fact their duplicity is heightened by their outward similarities. The message being, usually, "Don't be taken in by these traitors, no matter their charming appearance!"
If O'Brien had been named Ivanov, then the character would lack this psychological tension. Goldstein, on the other hand, was designed to be totally foreign and inimical to the Englsh or IngSoc way of life.
Poor Katie is clearly paying the price for Koreans' deep knowledge of British literature tropes ; ) |
And the irony being that the Japanese think similarly of the Koreans. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Do Korean blackguards make regular appearances in Japanese literature then? |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Do Korean blackguards make regular appearances in Japanese literature then? |
I dunno. I do know Japanese prefer mangy dogs to their Korean cousins. When I did an Osaka visa run from Korea, everyone was happy to chat with the gaijin until I mentioned I was fresh over from the land of the morning calm. Then I was a leper. |
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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Panama City, Panama
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| There's a small but significant tendency in British literature to cast doubtful characters as being of Irish extraction. O'Brien is one, but Morriarty, Lyndon, and even Kim are others. |
Lyndon? As in John of the Sex Pistols? He was Irish!
Ok, I'm joking, but it's standard in the prevailing culture of the time for the villains to reflect prejudices and international politics of the time. In the post-war period, the villains have generally been Russian/East European, complete with dodgy accents. In more recent times Arab villains have crept into the fray a bit more.
There are also conspircacy theories that Western films, portraying Native Americans ("Red Indians") as the bad guys, are simply a retconning of history to gloss over the fact that the European settlers who took over North America did what European colonisers elsewhere did and butchered the natives. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Barry Lyndon. Not Lydon... Sheesh!
Anyway, the point is that red Indians and evil Eastern Europeans were obviously other. Not the same thing as O' Brien. |
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