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Scarry thoughts on Japan for foreigners!
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nightsintodreams wrote:
Quote:
After all these years, is there something that you can do that Japan positively cannot live without?


Errr, yea, speak English fluently. Isn't that why they brought us here?

But how much does having foreigners who speak fluently benefit the country? Having effective teachers, yes, that would benefit the country, but just having foreign people who speak a language that Japanese people want to learn doesn't, by itself, do very much.
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RM1983



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
steki47 wrote:
RM1983 wrote:
Im probably doing the country more good in my ALT job than 20 million salarymen in Tokyo who sit there miserably all day.


Really think so? I don't. I am also an ALT and I really don't think I am contributing any more (or any less) than some desk drone. Although I think I lead a much better and more enjoyable personal life than said drone.


RM1983 wrote:
What does anyone really offer anyone?


Now we are on to something. I would probably be working some dull office job back home as well. Less holiday but perhaps more money. Job security may vary.


Yeah I was exaggerating! The truth is I dont really give a monkeys about what I give to the country, more what I bring the people in my general vicinity.

I think that his views are somewhat dated though.
I wonder how my view of Japan would be if I had never joined forums like this or gaijinpot. The chatter on these forums is all full of memes like the miserable lifer eikawa worker, the peter pan who refuses to learn Japanese. I dont see them in my life here.

"Dont end up a nova lifer" is fairly common for the type of advice youll see but you only need xe.com to see that isnt gonna work out. Some longtermers around are nearly entirely out of touch with some of these things I think.

I think a lot of the 'elder statesman' types are largely disconnected to the current "scene". Everytime I see someone talk about not giving white
people a bad rep, for example, I cringe and get a picture of what life was like for a gaijin in 1996.
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
nightsintodreams wrote:
Quote:
After all these years, is there something that you can do that Japan positively cannot live without?


Errr, yea, speak English fluently. Isn't that why they brought us here?

But how much does having foreigners who speak fluently benefit the country? Having effective teachers, yes, that would benefit the country, but just having foreign people who speak a language that Japanese people want to learn doesn't, by itself, do very much.


Eikaiwa is a multi million dollar industry here right? Whether or not you think it's as effective as being taught by real teacher is irrelevant. The business model seems to work, if they wanted qualified teachers they'd have to pay a hell of a lot more than they currently are. How many jobs does the Eikaiwa industry give to Japanese people? How much money do the companies and workers pay back in taxes to Japan? And guess what one of the most crucial elements to this industry is...foreigners who can speak English fluently. The industry wouldn't be able to exist without them.

Without getting into the argument of teacher qualifications etc, I'm really not sure any qualifications are necessary for being an effect teacher of conversational English. I'm also not sure how much having a teacher's license is going to help when it comes to conducting one on on conversation classes.

Anyway, my main point is that it really doesn't matter how much you value the contribution of a particular people. How much does Pakistanis owing corner shops benefit English? I'm not quite sure, but it's irrelevant to the argument, isn't it.

Please do take the time to answer these questions, I want to here your response.

What are you expecting immagrants anywhere to be able to do that the native population can't?

What examples can you think of of immagrants who do something that the native people can't?
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I work at a private high school in Japan, and compared with students that I taught for 5 years at an NYC high school, I can finally go to sleep at night and believe my kids will not make bad choices and join a gang, and will most likely go on to university. I was actually more replaceable in NYC than here with teachers lined up to get in. I don't know - maybe I'm living a rare dream here, but things are going pretty well for me here.

Divorce is hell everywhere you live, but when you lose access to your kids as Debito has, I'm sure that Japan would feel like a souless machine. Losing access to kids though is not a Japan only phenomenon as I hear of this happening in the US and Canada too. It may happen more in Japan due to cultural norms, but what Debito writes is true - but only on a really bad day in Japan.
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I forgot - Debito's other beefs were that he saw through bettering a few human rights issues since he was here, along with being denied the opportunity to take a sabbatical leave as a tenured professor in Hokkaido. I believe Japanese professors were given this opportunity, but he was denied it repeatedly.

It may be his combative foreign style, or he may have been on to something about not being equally/fairly treated. I don't know - or it could have been something in between these two.

So, in short he has a reason(s) to have a chip on his shoulder - but we all don't have to bear it.
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isitts



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shimokitazawa wrote:
It seems he has a doctorate now, lives in Hawaii and has a new Canadian wife. Which raises the question: Why is he wasting his time beating up on Japan?


I think he hints at why at the end of his rant...

Quote:
...But as your twilight years approach, you’ll look back in anger and wish you’d created a different bubble.
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Vince



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Debito's article is a cautionary tale that many (especially in the TEFL field) need to hear, but saying that long-term NJ equals illusio goes too far. Some people go on to better things and raise their families. To Debito's point, though, the vast majority of NJ do eventually read the writing on the wall and head for home.

timothypfox wrote:
Divorce is hell everywhere you live, but when you lose access to your kids as Debito has, I'm sure that Japan would feel like a souless machine. Losing access to kids though is not a Japan only phenomenon as I hear of this happening in the US and Canada too. It may happen more in Japan due to cultural norms, but what Debito writes is true - but only on a really bad day in Japan.

In the US, complete loss of access to the children happens only under very extenuating circumstances. If Debito were divorced in the US, he'd at least have the kids every other weekend (assuming his wife didn't flee with the kids and get automatic protection from Japan). Clearly, Japan has some major work to do on fathers rights, so Debito can be forgiven for being angry on this one.
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vince, I read the writing on the wall for public school teaching in the US and came back. But, yes, I suppose for most people - things don't turn out as well as it has for me - so far. I may be wincing on here in a year or two - so I'll get ready for your "I told you so."

Debito can be forgiven and even well understood for his gripe against Japan for never seeing his children again. But, it is not a burden that many of us will experience. Recent rulings do not allow a Japanese wife to flee and bar an American husband from access to his kids any longer.
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Shimokitazawa



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam