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Crackdown in Beijing on Foreign Teachers-?
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
True Blue wrote:
It looks like the witch hunt for illegal alien and fake foreign teachers is now in full swing down in Guangzhou: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/national/Guangzhou-police-intensify-efforts-to-crack-down-on-illegal-foreigners/shdaily.shtml


How is cracking down on illegally working foreigners a "witch hunt"? Should the authorities just allow people to do as they please?


True Blue, is Tudor another one of your personae? Did you pull him out of moth balls so you'll have someone to talk to?
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Powell wrote:
True Blue, is Tudor another one of your personae? Did you pull him out of moth balls so you'll have someone to talk to?


Are you hard of reading, Bud? I was disagreeing with what True Blue said; if you have an axe to grind with another poster, keep me out of it. A cursory look at my posting history would show I'm a genuine, if occasional, poster. In fact, I think this is the first time I've ever posted on the China forum - I just thought the "witch hunt" comment was slightly unnecessarily which TB conceded.
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vikeologist



Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's important to discriminate between True Blue's original unsubstantiated fairytale about sting operations etc, and the Guangzhou story, which is true.

I'm not convinced that this is that unusual. There have always been periodic crackdowns on illegal foreigners, especially in Guangzhou. The focus isn't usually on foreign teachers, (more the idea real or imagined of African drug dealers) but I do think that there's a possibility of being caught up in it if you're working illegally in Guangzhou, Shanghai or Beijing.

I don't think it's anything new though. I suspect things were stepped up a bit after the new legislation last year, and there'll continue to be the odd operation from time to time.

For most foreign teachers in tier 1 cities, the key thing may be to ensure that you carry your passport with you and register with the Police when you return from travels etc. Teachers in those cities will know more than me about the degree to which these steps are necessary.
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Shanghai Noon



Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't speak for other tier 1 cities, but no foreigner in Shanghai carries their passport with them. Myself, I'd rather risk the ¥500 fine than risk losing my passport.
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
Bud Powell wrote:
True Blue, is Tudor another one of your personae? Did you pull him out of moth balls so you'll have someone to talk to?


Are you hard of reading, Bud? I was disagreeing with what True Blue said; if you have an axe to grind with another poster, keep me out of it. A cursory look at my posting history would show I'm a genuine, if occasional, poster. In fact, I think this is the first time I've ever posted on the China forum - I just thought the "witch hunt" comment was slightly unnecessarily which TB conceded.


At the time that I wrote that, God and I knew what I was thinking.

Now only God knows.

Please accept my sincere apology.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries, Bud!
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked "Hard of Reading". Creative but not insulting. Thanks.
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Banner41



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanghai Noon wrote:
I can't speak for other tier 1 cities, but no foreigner in Shanghai carries their passport with them. Myself, I'd rather risk the ¥500 fine than risk losing my passport.


I lost a passport in Guangzhou carrying it around. Wish I would have just risked the fine. Now I just keep a copy and a snapshot on my phone. Ill take the fine any day.....
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banner41 wrote:
Shanghai Noon wrote:
I can't speak for other tier 1 cities, but no foreigner in Shanghai carries their passport with them. Myself, I'd rather risk the ¥500 fine than risk losing my passport.


I lost a passport in Guangzhou carrying it around. Wish I would have just risked the fine. Now I just keep a copy and a snapshot on my phone. Ill take the fine any day.....


Gotta love those PSB random passport checks... Razz
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asiannationmc



Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Beijing it is rarely ask for but if it is.. and you dont have it .. sometimes a copy will not be enough, then it will earn ya a prolonged trip to the PSB
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Blue wrote:
Bud Powell wrote:
True Blue wrote:

"...How many of the newbies come here knowing they are breaking the law versus those that find out once they get here?"


How can one come to China with the intent to work yet NOT know which visa is required? One must request the type of visa he wants from the Chinese consulate. Listed on the consulates' pages are the types of visas and what they are used for.

If one comes to China on the wrong visa, gets caught, fined and/or deported, whom can he blame besides himself? Sure, there are those who ALLOW themselves to be lured into coming to China on an L or F, but they know darned well that they should enter on a Z visa if they intend to work.


Bud, you can't honestly be able to read people's minds. Most people are not Bud Powell types that correspond with their embassies. I, like hundreds of others believed what "professional career recruiters" told me two years ago and came here using the invitation letter he gave me for an F visa. At that time I had no reason to doubt him and I only learned the truth after my arrival in China. I didn't even know that eslcafe existed. So pleased don't say that ALL people know in advance they are coming here on the wrong visa and deserve to be locked up and deported. Maybe half of them know they are violating the law and others like me did not. Luckily after I got here I realized how the visa game is played and found a job that provided me the Z visa that kept me out of problems.


For as long as there have been online ESL forums, visa questions have been asked; recruiters' questionable practices have been discussed. The vagueries of Chinese law and the capricious nature of the application of the law has spawned arguments and discussions across the internet. The information is and has always been available.

Anyone who isn't aware that there are usually problems attached to coming to the PRC with the wrong visa can blame only himself. Considering the fact that one must apply for the visa himself through the Chinese consulate, one must assume that he read the visa policies before applying for the wrong visa and CHOSE to ignore them.

Okay, you believed a recruiter. You CHOSE to ignore the policies regarding Chinese visas. You got caught. I'm not saying that you are an idiot for choosing to ignore the policies, or that you are actually a wu mao trying to dissuade foreigners from coming to China by pushing the CFTU and Scam Patrol websites; nor am I suggesting that you are a westerner with some idiotic need to endlessly grind his ax.

What I AM saying is to get over it. Nobody wants to read about any more of your problems or read any more linked websites. I can't speak for the majority of readers, but a lot of active members of Dave's ESL Cafe have called you on your BS.

It's time for you to spread the word somewhere else.

Be kind enough to flush it on your way out.
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asiannationmc



Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I AM saying is to get over it. Nobody wants to read about any more of your problems or read any more linked websites. I can't speak for the majority of readers, but a lot of active members of Dave's ESL Cafe have called you on your BS.

It's time for you to spread the word somewhere else.

Be kind enough to flush it on your way out.


My question would be a simple one, why if no one wants to read his post, are you reading and answering his post.
Quote:

If one comes to China on the wrong visa, gets caught, fined and/or deported, whom can he blame besides himself? Sure, there are those who ALLOW themselves to be lured into coming to China on an L or F, but they know darned well that they should enter on a Z visa if they intend to work.


Bud, Didn't you just advise Lei Feng to get their F visa in the US as they were going there and it would be more convenient.

Quote:
Lei Feng wrote:
Oh, I am an American.

Bud Powell
If you plan to be in the U.S. when it expires or has expired, renew it in the U.S.. You may be able to renew it in any country, but why take a chance?


Why take a chance indeed.

Lei's original post
Quote:

My current work visa is set to expire on Jan 31st. My new job can't offer work visa, but are willing to write an invitation letter for a new business visa that I am to apply for while in the States for Christmas.

I know this is an odd situation, but what is the best way to go about this.

Should I apply while in the States?

Wait until I get back and do it in Hong Kong (I live in Shenzhen)

Work a shit job that does proper visas?

What do you think?
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's an American. It would be a good idea to apply for any visa while he's in the U.S..

A company can offer and provide a letter of invitation. It's up to the consulate to accept or deny the F visa. My suggestion that he submit the letter of invitation while he is in the U.S. makes sense, no? It'd make sense to apply for ANY visa while one is in his home country, no? It'd be more convenient (and safer if it is rejected) to submit a letter of invitation for a visa while one is in one's home country, no? If it is rejected while he is in his home country, he can always apply for another job, no? He'll be legal while he's in his home country, no?

What's the problem? 'Splain it to me, Lucy.

Re: Responding to TrueBlue. I agree. I shouldn't respond to to that person. No one should. Responses act as a laxative on that forum member.

I hereby dub thee Sir Ex-Lax. At least it'll be a long-term appointment. Good luck.
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asiannationmc



Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is applying for a F Visa, instead of a work visa to teach.
Quote:
What's the problem? 'Splain it to me, Lucy.

[quote] This was your advice before

Quote:
Anyone who isn't aware that there are usually problems attached to coming to the PRC with the wrong visa can blame only himself. Considering the fact that one must apply for the visa himself through the Chinese consulate, one must assume that he read the visa policies before applying for the wrong visa and CHOSE to ignore them.


He could also blame bad advice given on this board.


Quote:
I hereby dub thee Sir Ex-Lax. At least it'll be a long-term appointment. Good luck.


I got more moves than Ex-Lax but no need for Sir. That's what they call my Current-LAX. Maybe you should meet my cousin called Chill-Lax.
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dongbei united



Joined: 28 Feb 2014
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just applied for a new US passport, current one expiring, and I was warned that Beijing will be requiring teachers to have a teaching certificate. You can get one online.

As for carrying your passport, the main thing to avoid is going between provinces without some sort of ID. I have taken the bus and train between provinces. For the train, it is a must initially just to get the ticket. For riding on a bus, sometimes you don't need it. However, several times the bus I was on stopped at the side of the road for a police check. Everyone was required to present an ID card. They accepted my passport in lieu of one. So, keep that in mind when traveling between "borders".
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