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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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 Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: What clauses China foreign teachers should add to contracts? |
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I mentioned in another thread that my Chinese wife works as an HR compliance specialist for Mercer so after I received a curious chain letter from another ESL teacher warning me of illegal contracts and employee rights, I gave a copy of my contract to my wife to see if it was technically a legal contract or not.
Although she concluded that it was not a legal contract because it violated my employee rights, she said that because I signed it, I waived those rights! So we talked about this for a while and came up with clauses that every expat in China should include in their contracts...
* Party B does not under any circumstances waive his/her employee rights and labor board protections, and retains the right to seek legal remedies in the courts of China.
* Party B shall not be compelled to do any non-teaching work for Party A.
* Party B shall be compensated for all overtime hours worked in accordance with central and provincial laws.
* Party B shall not be compelled to provide testimonials or his/her image for any public display purposes by Party A.
* Upon termination for any cause, Party A will provide Party B a release letter within 10 consecutive days of termination, at no cost.
* Existing lesson plans, teaching materials, and ppts of Party B are proprietary and may not be copied nor used without express written consent.
* Party B agrees to work exclusively at one campus located at __________ for Party A.
* Party B is not liable for any fines nor other penalties if this employment agreement is breached by Party A.
What other clauses do you think should be added? By the way, my wife says there is no legal requirement to sign any contract "as is" and hardly anyone uses the old standard SAFEA contract any more except the public schools.
Last edited by Scrabble King on Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:22 am; edited 2 times in total |
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3701 W.119th
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Ah, you're back. |
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coldcucumber
Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:02 am Post subject: |
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One thought that the CTFU was banned from here.
One thought wrong. 
One hopes that the OP doesn't start talking about CTFU things.
One also hopes that one doesn't sign away one's rights, just because
one doesn't understand them.  |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| I expect that most FTs work in public schools, so the idea that 'hardly anyone except' is a bit odd. |
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litterascriptor
Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:30 am Post subject: |
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I'll give you this, getting your domain name registered through a 3rd party was smart. I wasn't able to compare domain registrations for CTFU dot whatever to scam.com.
However, you really should do something about the litter all over scam.com. It has numerous link backs to chinascamwatch, which is registered to a public persona who lurks about Beijing. The same public persona who owns the ctfu site.
I'll be direct, are you that wanted felon from America who is hiding out in China with a decidedly Italian last name? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Scrabble King wrote: |
| When I came to this forum, I expected to find a mutual support group that are "pro-teacher". Most of you, judging from your profiles, have been here teaching long enough to know what clauses are deliberately missing from our contracts and which should be added. Why, can't you help with this issue instead of always changing the subject or analyzing/criticizing the messenger? |
Because those posters who, for some reason, find it necessary to flood the forum threads with the same old message and tiresome links to outside websites, forums, and blogs (like yours above), tend to be labeled as trolls and soon end up booted off the forum by the Cafe Moderators. Your posts are starting to exhibit the same 'symptoms.'
That said, it is possible to provide useful, supportive information without mentioning links to suspect organizations, forums on other websites, and blogs. Really. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Scrabble King wrote: |
| When I came to this forum, I expected to find a mutual support group that are "pro-teacher". Most of you, judging from your profiles, have been here teaching long enough to know what clauses are deliberately missing from our contracts and which should be added. Why, can't you help with this issue instead of always changing the subject or analyzing/criticizing the messenger? |
Because those posters who, for some reason, find it necessary to flood the forum threads with the same old message and tiresome links to outside websites, forums, and blogs (like yours above), tend to be labeled as trolls and soon end up booted off the forum by the Cafe Moderators. Your posts are starting to exhibit the same 'symptoms.'
That said, it is possible to provide useful, supportive information without mentioning links to suspect organizations, forums on other websites, and blogs. Really. |
Where have you guys discussed this subject before - the 2012 amendments to China's Labor Laws?. I didn't see a thread or I would have joined it. Maybe it is old news to you, but I just learned about this and maybe there a a few thousand teachers who still never even heard about this. Maybe Expat Employee Rights should be a big sticky everyone can see and not have to hunt for.
Last edited by Scrabble King on Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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3701 W.119th
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Go away.
Again.
Please. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| 3701 W.119th wrote: |
Go away.
Again.
Please. |
+1 |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Scrabble King wrote: |
| Where have you guys discussed this subject before - the 2012 amendments to China's Labor Laws?. I didn't see a thread or I would have joined it. Maybe it is old news to you, but I just learned about this and maybe there a a few thousand teachers who still never even heard about this. Maybe Expat Employee Rights should be a big sticky everyone can see and not have to hunt for. |
Well, considering you've repeated the exact same post in four Cafe forum threads, one after another... so far. (Imagine what this site would look like if we all did that.) Once was enough; there's no need for a "big sticky." Plus, those 'employee rights' appear on the Internet in more than 50 other websites (including CFTU's) with everyone quoting each other as the source. (Not surprising, 13 posts, including yours, also show the same typo: "Chines" labor laws). It's best to quote the original source, but I doubt you can even find the actual original author.
Anyway... Your response above shows you're not getting it because you're so focused on your own agenda. My prior post was about inundating the Cafe forums with copied and pasted content that point to sources many readers don't consider reputable/credible. Moreover, posters who habitually saturate the forums with links to other sites usually end up getting the boot. But you may already know that if you're one of the previously booted who's returned under a new identity. If not, then join the discussions without spamming the forums. That's more helpful. Besides, readers who can't locate certain info usually just ask. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Scrabble King wrote: |
| Where have you guys discussed this subject before - the 2012 amendments to China's Labor Laws?. I didn't see a thread or I would have joined it. Maybe it is old news to you, but I just learned about this and maybe there a a few thousand teachers who still never even heard about this. Maybe Expat Employee Rights should be a big sticky everyone can see and not have to hunt for. |
Well, considering you've repeated the exact same post in four Cafe forum threads, one after another... so far. (Imagine what this site would look like if we all did that.) Once was enough; there's no need for a "big sticky." Plus, those 'employee rights' appear on the Internet in more than 50 other websites (including CFTU's) with everyone quoting each other as the source. (Not surprising, 13 posts, including yours, also show the same typo: "Chines" labor laws). It's best to quote the original source, but I doubt you can even find the actual original author.
Anyway... Your response above shows you're not getting it because you're so focused on your own agenda. My prior post was about inundating the Cafe forums with copied and pasted content that point to sources many readers don't consider reputable/credible. Moreover, posters who habitually saturate the forums with links to other sites usually end up getting the boot. But you may already know that if you're one of the previously booted who's returned under a new identity. If not, then join the discussions without spamming the forums. That's more helpful. Besides, readers who can't locate certain info usually just ask. |
You are mistaken peng you. I asked about the contract clauses one time in this entire fricking web site - not four. And if the sticky on the contract issues wasn't locked for more than 9 years I would have asked my questions there. I am not going to rely on 9 year old information - sorry.
And yes, I did ask others, by posting a question as opposed to sending out PMs to people if that is what you suggested by asking others.
Sad to say, but as old as this forum is, it is full of hostile people who apparently criticize newcomers instead of welcoming them! Sorry ladies and gentlemen, but I am not an ass-kisser nor an apologist. If you think I am going to read over 300.000 posts on this forum hoping to find CURRENT info, go have another drink! I had a question and posted it -period. End of story.
Last edited by Scrabble King on Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:08 am; edited 2 times in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Scrabble King wrote: |
You are mistaken peng you. I asked about the contract clauses one time in this entire fricking web site - not four. And if the sticky on the contract issues wasn't locked for more than 9 years I would have asked my questions there. I am not going to rely on 9 year old information - sorry.
And yes, I did ask others, by posting a question as opposed to sending out PMs to people if that is what you suggested by asking others.
Sad to say, but as old as this forum it is full of hostile people who apparently criticize newcomers instead of welcoming them! Sorry ladies and gentlemen, but I am not an ass-kisser nor an apologist. If you think I am going to read over 300.000 posts on this forum hoping ti find CURRENT info, have another drink! I had a question and posted it -period. End of story. |
What? I have no clue what your rant is about nor why it's directed at me because it's completely unrelated to the point that I'd raised. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Trying to stay on point here... Lack of specific clauses in your employment contract will allow you to be exploited by employers in China. This is why most China employment contracts are vague and ambiguous - deliberately by design! YOU ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SIGN SUCH CONTRACTS NOR THOSE THAT HAVE NO ENGLISH VERBATIM TRANSLATION.
Sign a vague contract without inserting your protective clauses will invite:
- Working dozens of unpaid overtime hours every month
- Losing bonus, sick, and holiday pay
- Being used a marketing monkey to hand out flyers on a street corner
- Working at three different locations in a single day
- Working six days instead of five
- Getting arrested, fined, jailed, and deported for working without a Z visa
- Getting cheated out of housing deposits and air fare reimbursements
- Cheated out of 50% of their paycheck
- Getting late paychecks
- Being assigned split-shift working hours
- Being extorted for money for their invitation and/or release letters
- Having an illegal contract that forfeits their employee rights
- Having their lesson plans and ppts stolen from them and even sold
- Having their passports "held hostage"
- Being a victim of a "bait and switch" scheme
- Having their resume and passport scan sold to identity thieves
- Having their photos used in advertisements without their knowledge
- Having their names attached to fake testimonials
- Being paid reduced pay during a probationary period
- Being tricked into working a bogus "Teacher Internship"
- Being illegally compelled to pay for TEFL training
What is NOT said in China can really cost you a lot of money. Read this and see what I mean: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=642187
Last edited by Scrabble King on Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
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ScrabbleKing- I think this is an interesting thread, and some of your clauses have some merit.
I think the problem may be that asking for these clauses would make the job applicant seem like a trouble maker.
Hey. I bet this argument is made every single time that anybody tries to remedy any kind of injustice or unfairness in the system. If nobody rocked the boat, dictatorships would last forever, women wouldn't have the vote etc.
I try to acknowledge those occasions when you try to contribute something helpful.
The trouble is that foreign teachers in China are
a) not in a strong bargaining position, at least not at first.
b) mostly temporary.
However, for those who are in a stronger bargaining position through our experience and qualifications, and looking for something more permanent for reasons such as your imaginary Chinese wife, maybe it is worth considering requesting that 1 or more of these clauses are considered.
New teachers though. Asking for these contract changes would probably ensure the school immediately looks elsewhere.
the thing about contracts is that they really don't matter all that much. If an employer breaks a contract, it's pretty tricky to tackle them on it.
It's not just in China. I was a contract manager. I had a very successful contractual relationship with a local authority, but we never actually signed a contract. Their lawyers and us never agreed final contract, so we just got on with making money and being successful for years on end while the draft contract bounced back and forth by email.
The important thing is to ask the right questions at interview stage and feel confident that you have established a relationship of mutual trust. Contract amendments may actually be harmful in this regard. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
ScrabbleKing- I think this is an interesting thread, and some of your clauses have some merit.
I think the problem may be that asking for these clauses would make the job applicant seem like a trouble maker.
Hey. I bet this argument is made every single time that anybody tries to remedy any kind of injustice or unfairness in the system. If nobody rocked the boat, dictatorships would last forever, women wouldn't have the vote etc.
I try to acknowledge those occasions when you try to contribute something helpful.
The trouble is that foreign teachers in China are
a) not in a strong bargaining position, at least not at first.
b) mostly temporary.
However, for those who are in a stronger bargaining position through our experience and qualifications, and looking for something more permanent for reasons such as your imaginary Chinese wife, maybe it is worth considering requesting that 1 or more of these clauses are considered.
New teachers though. Asking for these contract changes would probably ensure the school immediately looks elsewhere.
the thing about contracts is that they really don't matter all that much. If an employer breaks a contract, it's pretty tricky to tackle them on it.
It's not just in China. I was a contract manager. I had a very successful contractual relationship with a local authority, but we never actually signed a contract. Their lawyers and us never agreed final contract, so we just got on with making money and being successful for years on end while the draft contract bounced back and forth by email.
The important thing is to ask the right questions at interview stage and feel confident that you have established a relationship of mutual trust. Contract amendments may actually be harmful in this regard. |
Yeah, Vike, I can see how some perceptions may be skewed if "demands" are made instead of polite suggestions. But if you are good and they want you, I think they will concede - at least they did for me. I was then forbidden to show my contract to anyone else. Obviously they did not want my concessions to apply to everyone.
But realistically, there are less and less teachers coming to China and the competition amongst schools is so intense for the native speakers, that I believe every native speaker that is offered a job can easily tweak their contracts so long as they don't "make demands" which Chinese clearly do not like.
When I did my negotiating I simply said, "I made some changes to specify the things we discussed, and what you promised me verbally. If you ever get transferred Mrs. ________, I don't want any misunderstandings with others." She signed off. |
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