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Badboy Blue

A few posters are on the right track,
That every other post or so is usually about what is the standard or basic salary expectations for foreign teachers going to China.
But after doing a search on this topic, I found.....zilch!
So, why not ask, right?

Pay is important, but so is how much things cost.
I know the answer is going to be; "It depends on location."

No Shi'ite!!!!! Very Happy

So, what would be the "cost-of-living" index for your specific area. If we get a few answers for this question (especially for the big cities like SH or BJ), we can get a general picture of what it would like and basically, where our money is going....

But please.....
Lets talk about basic necessities first...ok Very Happy

_________________________________________
While taking a break from the "2004 Presidential Campaign Trail" Confused

Senator Kerry sits down to talk to ex-president Bill Clinton to discuss various issues that might arise during the campaign. Perplexed, John Kerry asks Mr. Clinton;

Kerry: "What do you mean by 'issues'?"
Clinton: "Why, Mr. Kerry, I really don't know how to explain issues. You'll
have to ask Ms. Lewinsky about that one"...... Shocked

____________
Sidenote~ if you think I should start a webpage for my snide, political remarks, say "yay" in your posts.
Thanks for your support

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

bukowski1234 · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:57 am Post subject:

Doc,

While relevant to the question in discussion, the chart does not really help anyone to determine the cost of living in actual monetary terms. What is missing are mean salaries in RMB. I don't think anyone knows this figure.

What I have been told is that in Jiangxi province near Nanchang the "average" family income of 3000 RMB per month is sufficient for the area. My salary will be approximately twice that amount. My apartment will be supplied with the package. I think that if we can compile similar statistics we'll get a better idea of the correlation between the actual cost of living vs teacher salary.

waxwing · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 719 Location: China

Actually, from experience travelling in many countries I can tell you that GDP per capita is a surprisingly good indicator for living costs.
What it doesn't tell you is something that probably no indicator can tell you - the heterogeneity in prices. Like for example the fact that while a potato or a loaf of bread is a ton cheaper in Russia than in the UK, electronic goods might be about the same price. etc. etc.

I suspect that kind of thing is much better in China than in many other developing countries, since it has such a tremendously strong manufacturing base.

The only problem with the above data is that it's out of date. China is changing fast I guess.

Thanks Doc - it's better than nuttin!! Very Happy

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

bukowski1234 · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:31 pm Post subject:

ACTUALLY, this chart tells me nothing more than the relative economic output of each province in China. While its presence seems to elevate the discussion from a mundane level to a more intellectual level, it provides NO specific information from which one may extrapolate information about what it will cost (in currency) Badboy to live in a given lifestyle anywhere in China. I can extrapolate from the chart the expectation of a lower standard of living as one moves across the continuum from Shanghai to Guizhou, but little else.

One may predict that the STANDARD of living is higher in Shanghai than it is in Guizhou, but there is no way of knowing exactly what that standard is.

While it may cost a certain sum of money to live a certain style in Shanghai, it may be more expensive to live in the same style in Guizhou for the simple fact that the availability of certain goods and services may be very low. Given the possibility of government price supports and subsidies to make certain goods and products more affordable, the picture becomes even more cloudy.

For example:

I want to live as an upper middle class Los Angelean lives after I move to Bunkie, Louisiana.

Okay. Land is cheaper in Bunkie, and the cost of building and maintaining a house is cheaper in Bunkie than it is in Los Angeles. For the $425,000 I got for my 1500 square foot house in L.A. I can afford a 250 square foot mansion on an acre of land with a swimming pool in the backyard in Bunkie, LA. (All bought with inflated L.A. dollars)

However, I want to eat in a three star restaurant every other night. Where do I go? Hmmmm.... There's Don's Seafood down the street. Then what? I have to drive to New Orleans for the Court of two Sisters, Brennan's, and maybe Ralph and Kakoo's--- 200 miles roundtrip. Whoa.

I want to pick up a nice wine a few nights a week for dinner at home. Well, it's forty miles to Baton Rouge and a hundred miles to New Orleans. The price I pay for that wine won't be Bunkie, Louisiana Ripple prices but New Orleans prices, plus shipping expenses.

I brought my Audie with me from Los Angeles. Now it needs a new framazama which can be installed and purchased ONLY through the dealership which is in New Orleans. Two hundred miles worth of gas, a night in a hotel in the French Quarter (Audi can't fix the car today, so I have to stay overnight), dinner, and cabfare. Right there, I'm out $750.00 just because I want my Audi.

Rent a movie? In Bunkie, Louisiana? Forget it unless you REALLY love life behind the wheel of an automobile.

NOW I realize that the comparison of the two local economies did not contain enough information for me to make an informed decision about maintaining my Los Angeles lifestyle in Bunkie, Louisiana. I went from making $250,000 a year as a program analyst in Silicon Valley to a similar position in nearby Baton Rouge which pays only $80,000.00 per year. The cost of maintaining my Los Angelean lifestyle in Bunkie, Louisiana is impossible at my Bunkie, Louisiana wages.

Now, take a similar Shanghanese standard of living and apply it to Guizhou. Does Doc's chart tell you anything about the cost of living or maintaining a given lifestyle anywhere in China? Nope. At least, not unless you possess other information from another source-- such as personal experience.

Doc, does Tibet REALLY have a more active economy than Jiangxi? Nanchang , Jx is a pretty heavily industrialized city. I can't imagine what economic activity in Tibet would surpass that of the agricultural and industrial activity in Jiangxi.

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

bullitt · Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 49 Location: Shanghai

bendan · Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 739 Location: North China

I don't think the table is of much use at all. How would you use it to compare Guangzhou with Tianjin? Guangzhou (a city that is part of Guangdong) has a far higher standard of living than Tianjin (a municipality), but the table might suggest otherwise.

I also don't agree that having 10,000 in Shanghai is like having 4,000 in Dalian. I'm sure there's a difference, but it certainly isn't that big. Perhaps your friends just mean that they spend much more in Shanghai.

gmat · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 274 Location: S Korea

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

Personally, I appreciate the fact that someone took the time and energy to add something to this discussion other than his opinion or a cheap-shot.

It's been awhile since I took Economics 101, but I do recall that there is a relationship between GDP and Cost of Living Index. I believe on a macro level, cost-of-living index is calculated by GDP/# of Consumers.

Nevertheless, I found the GDP data informative even though not directly on topic.

gmat · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 274 Location: S Korea

Well Lee, I appreciate the work that Doc has done too, I was simply pointing out an error, just as I will point out your error:

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

This a great and relevant thread, but I'd take the side of those who disagree with GDP per capita relating to cost of living (linear or not). Production and consumption measures are different.

One simple experiment to do is to look up various countries on the Lonely Planet and compare the GDP per capita with the 'Money and Costs' section. I wouldn't bank on the accuracy of both figures, but what I can see is that the countries with the lowest cost of living (hence travel value) are not necessarily those with the lowest GDP per capita.

Consider a few countries that have great travel deals, i.e. low costs. Here's what strikes my fancy: Thailand, Vietnam, Egypt, Madagascar, Bangladesh, India, Turkey, Sri Lanka. Trust me, I love doing this research.

In order of living costs compared with GDP / capita:

(1) Bangladesh ($4 / day) (1) Madagascar: 800
(2) Madagascar ($8 / day) (2) Vietnam: 1300
(3) India ($10 / day) (3) Bandladesh: 1380
(4) Egypt ($15 / day) (4) Thailand: 2168
(5) Thailand ($16 / day) (5) India: 2200
(6) Vietnam ($18 / day) (6) Turkey: 2490
(7) Turkey ($20 / day) (7) Sri Lanka: 2500
( Cool

Sri Lanka ($20 / day) ( Cool

Egypt: 3600

It doesn't correlate very well. One example is with India and Sri Lanka, with relavitely simlar GDPs. Possible they have to import many consumables into Lanka which raises the living costs.

Steve

waxwing · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 719 Location: China