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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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 Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Simon in Suzhou wrote: |
| SearchingChina wrote: |
So no one can give even ballpark figures then? I'm not asking for wage rates all over China, just what the going rate is in Tier 1 cities really.
Let's say I went to Shanghai, found a public primary school (state owned so they can get the work permit and visa), walked in and asked if they needed an English teacher, and they said yes...what salary should I expect and how do I know if they're lowballing me?
Surely there's got to be some kind of figure we can throw out there? The government must allocate these public schools a similar amount? |
As others have said, there is a huge variance in salaries for a variety of reasons. You cannot compare public school jobs to those back home where the govt allowances are pretty much the same for each school in a region.
A public high school might have a principal who studied abroad and thinks English education is super important and pay twice what the school next door pays because the principal would rather use that allotment for booze and broads. Or maybe they are just putting that govt money into the science budget and don't hire a foreign teacher at all.
Every COUNTY has a different allotment of cash for education depending on the wealth of the county. So schools in inner Mongolia are generally SUPER POOR except in the county of Ordos, which has huge oil, coal, and natural gas production. Even the countryside schools in that county look nicer than those in Shanghai. Yet 5 miles across the county border the public school looks like a 3rd world country with dirt floors.
You are not getting low-balled. For the most part, they make an offer and you either take it or leave it. You may be able to negotiate slightly depending on how desperate they are for a teacher, but not much realistically in your first job from abroad. I have found negotiation to be overrated in China, unless you have worked for a school, they know you and like you, and you are renewing your contract. In essence, they know what they are going to pay for a foreign teacher and they don't care much about what you want. Many public schools will go without a foreign teacher rather than negotiating a higher salary.
All that glitters is not gold on the internet. High salary jobs are often not what they appear (bait and switch from recruiters) or that 20,000 is the maximum salary they would theoretically give to a PHD with 20 years experience...but they wil pay you 8000. The best jobs in China are NOT found on the internet, they are acquired through word of mouth. I always recommend a newbie find a stable, low-stress, lower-paying job in their first year rather than jumping at the highest salary offered. It's much easier to find a subsequent better job on the ground and be able to assess the quality of the job by actually knowing and talking to people who work there. That is, unless you are a hermit who never talks to anyone (there are plenty here!), in which case you will still be blindly searching the internet again and hoping for the best.
You need to think about how much money you need, how many hours you want to work, and where you want to live. Are you the type of person who wants to work in your free time to scramble for privates and extra cash? Or do you want to work your mon-fri job and relax in the evenings and weekends? If the former, you need to be in a big city with wealthier people around who are looking for a tutor. Take a job in a tier 1 city with low hours and maybe a lower salary and go for it. If the latter, find a place that makes you happy, a job with a salary you can live with, and enjoy your life. For many people, LOCATION is the difference between happiness and misery in China, much more than salary.
So yeah, all that is to say we CAN'T give you even a rough estimate of salaries. A tier 2 city in Guangdong is different from a tier 2 city in Hubei. Not even close. And the schools even in the same province are not comparable. Just figure out what YOU NEED, then job search accordingly. |
OK well I'll try and narrow it down. What would be an acceptable salary for a primary or high school in Shanghai, assuming accomodation is provided, 20 classes a week?
Yeah the schools will all pay differently but what would you personally regard as an acceptable salary in that case, given cost of living in the big city? |
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Unchained English
Joined: 31 Dec 2014
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Let's say I went to Shanghai, found a public primary school (state owned so they can get the work permit and visa), walked in and asked if they needed an English teacher, and they said yes...what salary should I expect and how do I know if they're lowballing me? |
I am not going to paint all tier 1 cities or both with a broad brush, but I did have some interviews in Shanghai before I left it. Assuming you want Shanghai, realize a few things.
You mentioned Korea, and I too decided on Shanghai after Korea. However, one thing I thought of but didn't know how to understand more of is that China is a HUGE country.
I could work in Korea and go from city to city, and I could get a new job easily. I saw ads in Seoul, ads in Busan, and on the east and west coast. Salaries were pretty much the same. The only difference was the organization that you applied through, EPIK, GEPIK, or SMOE.
It's nothing like that in China. Let's say you get a 10,000 job with 20-25 classes (no office hours, weekends off and evenings), that alone sounds good. However, what if the PSB only agrees to 4-6 month residence permit? The school may want you for a year, you may want the year, but you have to please the PSB.
That 10,000 is "lowballing" if you don't work 6-12 months. These little things come up. How about housing? Do you pay for housing or does the school pay for housing? What does the apartment look like?
Everything can be traded. Small apartment for less hours, couple may get special treatment for housing but work more hours and spend more time with the young ones.
One teacher at my school is right out of college, she doesn't seem to have had any experience, not from her teaching just what I heard about her. She has a slightly higher salary, but she is working more classes than I am. Another teacher has a lower salary, and they changed my schedule. She took 12 of my classes so I could teach an American culture class. 1 class. That means she had to teach 11 more classes than originally scheduled.
So, you are worried about lowballing? You should be more worried about lying, deceiving, and "innocent" changes in your original agreements.
I had one recruiter tell me after I refused to go to an interview with school number 2 because they didn't send me a copy of the contract that I had to accept school number 1's job offer and pay the recruiter a commission fee each month.
Why do you want to live in a tier 1 city? That's another question. These kids are rich brats who don't care about learning. They bring their ipads, iphones, headsets usually connected to a cell phone or laptop and when you discipline them to learn they complain to their parents you are a bad teacher. Parents wave their money in front of the school, and now the teacher is bad and needs to back off.
Well, I have backed off. I teach now in areas that are 45-2 hours from the center of a "tier 1" city/environment. These students don't have the money as the central kids do, it is more relaxed and I don't work 5 days a week. They are usually 4 days. Sometimes a holiday will offset the schedule and I come in for a one off Sunday schedule. But I still get 3+ days off.
My schedule is usually light. I can come and go as a I please, and I have a salary just under what many tier 1 teachers make. At least, inner ring of tier 1. I don't like this terminology as it assumes tier 1 cities are the same within their tier. My example shows they aren't.
Anyway, after reading all this, if you still want to
1. be in a crowded city full of foreigners like yourself back home
2. live in potentially noisy and unhealthy conditions outside
3. deal with the wrath of rich parents who simply just want you to sign off 4. on a student's application to study abroad but not actually teach them
5. be overworked when the school sees you jump through their hoops
then the only thing I can tell you is.....
Take the highest salary possible, when offered 8,000 ask for 10,000. If you are that kind of person you don't care about lowballing because you just see the highest salary and you take that offer.
I suggest you think along these terms, then question yourself "Do I really need this 15,000 salary with 25 classes and 15 office hours?"
Start there and see where it gets you. |
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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:19 am Post subject: |
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OK thanks..guess I'll just ask around then.
| Unchained English wrote: |
Why do you want to live in a tier 1 city? |
The main reason is money, secondary reason is I'd like to actually be able to buy western things every now and then. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:24 am Post subject: |
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I don't know why this information is so hard. The salary difference between 1st tier city and BFE is not that big for high schools and universities. The main thing is what type of high school.
University: 5k-7k rmb/month depending on qualifications and locations (with some rare high paying exceptions). 12-16 hours/week or less.
"international" high school: 15k+/month in Beijing or Shanghai, 10-12k+/month in other cities. Other cities you might work fewer hours if you're lucky (lower or no office hours). Otherwise ~40 hours per week. More pay for subject matter teachers.
Chinese high school: maybe 8k-13k seemingly not dependent on location. Fewer hours, especially fewer or no office hours.
All of these would normally pay for housing or give a housing allowance. Seems quite a few high schools in Beijing and Shanghai don't offer great housing packages so sometimes the salary is about the same between them and other cities.
Haven't really looked into other types of schools that much.
HTH
EDIT:
You can buy western things anywhere using Taobao. I don't buy many western things at local stores because they're often a rip off. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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"...I had one recruiter tell me after I refused to go to an interview with school number 2 because they didn't send me a copy of the contract that I had to accept school number 1's job offer and pay the recruiter a commission fee each month..."
This sounds familiar.
Who was the recruiter? Was it an actual recruiter or someone representing a program?
Please share the name, not a website url.
Thanks! |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Unless you have a serious issue that you need help with, you should not be paying anyone.
The school should be paying. |
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