Job Discussion Forums

[dancingdeb58]

I have been offered a position with Shutong Training Center in Shenyang I believe. Does anyone have any info about this institution? Will be leaving around the end of August. I also hear it gets pretty coooold there.

[Roger]

I once applied Shutong in SHenyang; note there seem to be several Shutongs, so I am not clear whether I am talking about YOUR Shutong.
But mine was advwertising regularly - high teacher turnover, etc.
Finally I met a guy who had been shunted around the country from one taker to another, one of whom being SHutong. That decided me to drop them.
Training centres often have to farm you out.

As for Shenyang, it's not my dream city. It is located in the infamous rustbelt of Manchuria. High unemployment rate and soaring crime!

[Lee_Odden]

I worked in Shenyang for a few months, mostly during the winter months and now live in Beijing. Beijing is a paradise compared to Shenyang.

Having spent most of my adult life in New Jersey and a few years in Texas, I found Shenyang to be too damn cold. On the other hand, the Canadians seemed to do all right with the cold temperature. But for me, even with long-underwear and several layers of clothing, I still froze my a*s off just walking from the apartment to the main street for a taxi.

The city is very polluted, especially in the winter when they are burning coal. You do get used to it and there are many foreigners who have lived here for years. But I missed seeing the stars at night which are perpetually blocked by the city's gray haze; even on "clear nights".

Shenyang school recruiters, managers and owners will tell you that the criticisms of the city are overstated, but they are not.

Probably the best thing about Shenyang is the cost of living - it's very cheap there to live. Even on 4,000 RMB, you will be able to save some money without too much effort if you don't get sick or eat in the better hotels and finer restaurants. The other thing, is that there are relatively few foreigners in Shenyang because it is not the garden capital of China. As a result, you will have "celebrity status" there, if you are into that sort of thing.

Bring plenty of antibiotics from home with you. China, especially in the northeast and in the smaller cities, has one of the biggest problems in the world (followed by India) with counterfeit and adulterated medications and I ran into a lot of trouble trying to treat a lung infection which should have been treated in 10 days but took months to cure because of weak and completely fake medications. As I result of taking weak antibiotics, my body built up a resistance to them and now, I will never be able to benefit from those again (and they used to work like a charm back in the States). I finally had to have real antibiotics sent to me from home.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I live about an hour away from Shenyang and visited Shenyang a few weeks ago.

Except for Koreatown (She-Ha) I hated it! People were no different from their country-hick brethren. The pollution was pretty bad, and it's not even coal-burning season yet.

I would pass.

Dandong is a far more beautiful city with mountains, trees, rivers, and less pollution. It's where I'm pinning my sights on after my contract runs it's course.

[shenyanggerry]

I like Shenyang. I agree it is polluted, more so in winter when the whole of Northern China heats with soft coal. From the little of other cities that I have seen, Shenyang is not that bad. Pollution is worse in winter although 2004 seemed less polluted than 2003. They are planning on removing something like 1000 smoke-stacks a year for the next three years - so I hear. They did plant at least 100,000 new trees in 2003 - trees at least ten foeet high!

I find the people there pleasant. Because of reputation, there is not a major tourist industry. This means there are no merchants who rely on cheating foreigners to put food on the table and a BMW in the driveway. Taxis drive you straight to your destination without using the scenic route. Foreigners usually pay the same as Chinese. There is a large enough Russian. Korean, etc. influence that there are a variety of restaurants, mostly inexpensive.

As for Shutong, I recall the name but cannot remember if in a good or bad context. Investigate further before you sign.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[Lee_Odden]

I think ShenyangGerry has been very lucky. My experiences were far more like GWOW's.

I took taxis everyday to and from the various branches of my school and I'd say about 10 - 20 percent tried to add a Yuan or two to the fare. I would correct them and that would be the end of that (once they realized I know where I was going). A small percentage even have meters that are, let's say, a little fast. But I would tell them the meters were incorrectly callibrated and they would easily accept what the fare should have been.

There are some benefits to living in a city that doesn't host many foreigners. But the flip side is that many store keepers and restaurant workers, not having had any or much experience with Western culture, have absolutely no concept of customer service. If there ever was a problem with the food or merchandise, I was treated pretty much as if I was Chinese; poorly. Because of the high unemployment rate and poverty level in Shenyang, I found there was an enormous amount of preoccupation there with cheating and being cheated. I found it to be very tiring after a while. That was not the case all of the time and there were times that I was treated very well, even having established a nice friendship with one of the restaurant owners, but that was atypical.

As to not being charged a "special price," I am sorry I didn't shop with ShenyangGerry. When I first moved to Shenyang (my first stop in China), I was consistently charged 50 RMB for an IP card that I should have paid 28 - 30 RMB for. One day I happened to mention what I was paying for the cards to my students and they laughed, telling me that I was being charged the "lao wai price" (their words). I had numerous experiences in which I was overcharged and cheated or, at least, it was attempted. I am not saying these experiences are unique to Shenyang, but they did happen.

About the nicest thing I can say about Shenyang is that my RMB went a lot further there than they currently do in Beijing. And, for some people, that's a very important consideration - one that outweighs the pollution, poverty and challenging weather.

[dancingdeb58]

[Ludwig]

The coal-driven economy of Shenyang is a prime example of just how terrible pollution in present-day China can be, and is frequently cited as such:

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/pollution/pollution.jsp?id=22222600

http://www.eetpc.org/Air%20Quality/PAPERS.AIR/liu_tie.htm

http://greennature.com/article358.html

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0907/is_2_55/ai_62494995

http://www.usembassy-china.org.cn/sandt/Liaoningweb.htm

http://www.usembassy-china.org.cn/sandt/shenyang.htm

Anyone who even so much as considers even so much as passing through the crudhole commonly referred to as 'Shenyang' after reading such documented problems needs to have their head examined.

[Ludwig]

I forgot to add that the level of pollution in Shenyang has even attracted the attention of the UN:

http://www.unhabitat.org/programmes/SustainableCities/shenyang.asp

[shenyanggerry]

Ludwig, I agree with you that Shenyang was incredably polluted. The point I'm trying to make is that things are changing fairly rapidly. You cited a number of good articles on conditions in Shenyang. The problem is that the newest one is dated August 2000 - four years ago.

Yes Shenyang is badly polluted but it is improving. Anecdotal evidence from colleagues and acquaintances who've been in Shenyang a few years indicate things are much better now than even a few years ago. Comments like "you wouldn't believe the difference". As I mentioned, in my own experience things were better in 2004 than in 2003. I hope 2005 will have cleaner air than 2004.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

This is because industry is being hit heavily in China. It has nothing to do with trying to make the environment better and everything to do with a bad industrial economy in the northeast.

[shenyanggerry]

The Great Wall of Whiner, I estimate that in 2003 100,000 plus trees were planted in Shenyang. There are also a number of new 'instant parks'. The decline in industrial pollution may have its base in economics but the new trees were planted to beautify.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Well, trees alone do not clean up the air. Sure it makes Shenyang look nicer, but the real reason Shenyang's air seems cleaner is because of factories closing down.

Whichever way you look at it, I too have been told that Shenyang is cleaner than in the past (the air).