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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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 Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Voyeur wrote: |
The Chinese ESL market is still far from an efficient labor market. Conditions and contracts vary considerably. Even for veteran teachers, it can be quite hard to know if your job is above average or not.
Teaching at Uni. is generally something I try to avoid because I do not want to teach English to a large class. But I know some uni. teachers who teach only English majors with classes capped at around 20-25 students. OTOH, most of them had to work up to that and did have to teach freshman English 'conversation' classes to 70+ students at a time.
If you can get them, the international classes at top ranked high schools tend to be good jobs, with higher pay than universities and similar schedules. However, the work can be more demanding as in many cases you will have to teach IELTS, SAT, or TOEFL and either know how to teach them or be capable enough to figure it out quickly. |
This is good advice.
Also bear in mind the same job may pay very differently. Some teachers at my work earn as little as 9k rmb with shared housing (these are certified teachers usually btw) while others earn double or more than that.
Teaching University is boring as hell imho. The students have checked out after taking the gaokao and don't care anymore. |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Hdeth makes a good point. As anyone can tell you, Chinese high school students are for the most part dead serious and diligent because they are trying to get into 'the right university', while their compatriots just a year older have made it. They can now afford to sit back and coast. So it isn't a question of college students being more mature. |
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LUWahoo
Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 13
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| water rat wrote: |
| Hdeth makes a good point. As anyone can tell you, Chinese high school students are for the most part dead serious and diligent because they are trying to get into 'the right university', while their compatriots just a year older have made it. They can now afford to sit back and coast. So it isn't a question of college students being more mature. |
So International High Schools with uni work hours=  |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| LUWahoo wrote: |
| water rat wrote: |
| Hdeth makes a good point. As anyone can tell you, Chinese high school students are for the most part dead serious and diligent because they are trying to get into 'the right university', while their compatriots just a year older have made it. They can now afford to sit back and coast. So it isn't a question of college students being more mature. |
So International High Schools with uni work hours= |
Lol....I went from teaching uni students to teaching 12th graders at an international school. Guess what happens after they take their final SAT? Not to mention a significant portion of students plan to just buy their way into a Uni. Pay someone in HK to take the SAT for them or get the answers to the upcoming SAT...or just pay off the testing center. All the students get near-perfect grades. They cheat like crazy on their exams.
That being said I enjoy my job, especially because half my classes are with a really bright class who are a lot of fun to teach. They speak near-fluent English, some of them have studied in America, and now that they're done with their testing they really want to learn more about college life, read what American students have read, and otherwise prepare themselves to study overseas (the vast majority are going to the US so I say America, though a few are going to other countries...switzerland was surprising). |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| hdeth wrote: |
Teaching University is boring as hell imho. The students have checked out after taking the gaokao and don't care anymore. |
I taught in 4 different unis, and my experience was the opposite, as far as motivated students are concerned. And that held true for my colleagues as well, as far as I could see (and hear). |
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D-M
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Based on my own limited experience, and from reading tons of threads .. the best teaching experience lies in training centres working only with adults, in small classes that are streamed by ability. This is the area I choose to work in, and would find it very hard to justify moving into the oft discussed university classes with far too many students and far to much of a mix in ability.
Everything is of course a trade off. Salary Vs Hours Vs Location Vs Social Scene Vs Employer Vs Holidays Vs Students. Its all a question of what matters to you, or to you and your family if you have one.
University work, with disinterested faculty, often disinterested students, and no guidance or remit other than 'make them speak English', would be for me ... the worst possible job in China. Of course, not all university job are create equal ... |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| roadwalker wrote: |
| hdeth wrote: |
Teaching University is boring as hell imho. The students have checked out after taking the gaokao and don't care anymore. |
I taught in 4 different unis, and my experience was the opposite, as far as motivated students are concerned. And that held true for my colleagues as well, as far as I could see (and hear). |
Remember Gao Kao has no speaking test so your freshers haven't had Oral English for a year.
If they've attempted Gao Kao twice (to get a better uni) then the no Oral English stand down is even longer. |
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LUWahoo
Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 13
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| hdeth wrote: |
| LUWahoo wrote: |
| water rat wrote: |
| Hdeth makes a good point. As anyone can tell you, Chinese high school students are for the most part dead serious and diligent because they are trying to get into 'the right university', while their compatriots just a year older have made it. They can now afford to sit back and coast. So it isn't a question of college students being more mature. |
So International High Schools with uni work hours= |
Lol....I went from teaching uni students to teaching 12th graders at an international school. Guess what happens after they take their final SAT? Not to mention a significant portion of students plan to just buy their way into a Uni. Pay someone in HK to take the SAT for them or get the answers to the upcoming SAT...or just pay off the testing center. All the students get near-perfect grades. They cheat like crazy on their exams.
That being said I enjoy my job, especially because half my classes are with a really bright class who are a lot of fun to teach. They speak near-fluent English, some of them have studied in America, and now that they're done with their testing they really want to learn more about college life, read what American students have read, and otherwise prepare themselves to study overseas (the vast majority are going to the US so I say America, though a few are going to other countries...switzerland was surprising). |
A good non-profit IS would seem ideal, given you have administrative support/aren't being controlled by parents... US, China, who doesn't start clocking out towards the end of a semester/year? haha |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| LUWahoo wrote: |
| hdeth wrote: |
| LUWahoo wrote: |
| water rat wrote: |
| Hdeth makes a good point. As anyone can tell you, Chinese high school students are for the most part dead serious and diligent because they are trying to get into 'the right university', while their compatriots just a year older have made it. They can now afford to sit back and coast. So it isn't a question of college students being more mature. |
So International High Schools with uni work hours= |
Lol....I went from teaching uni students to teaching 12th graders at an international school. Guess what happens after they take their final SAT? Not to mention a significant portion of students plan to just buy their way into a Uni. Pay someone in HK to take the SAT for them or get the answers to the upcoming SAT...or just pay off the testing center. All the students get near-perfect grades. They cheat like crazy on their exams.
That being said I enjoy my job, especially because half my classes are with a really bright class who are a lot of fun to teach. They speak near-fluent English, some of them have studied in America, and now that they're done with their testing they really want to learn more about college life, read what American students have read, and otherwise prepare themselves to study overseas (the vast majority are going to the US so I say America, though a few are going to other countries...switzerland was surprising). |
A good non-profit IS would seem ideal, given you have administrative support/aren't being controlled by parents... US, China, who doesn't start clocking out towards the end of a semester/year? haha |
At my school at least it's very hard to contact the parents directly. Their Chinese home room teachers suck up to the parents and make their kid look good so they keep forking over the exorbitant tuition and the home room teacher keeps his/her job. The school manipulates the grades so even if you fail a student they'll be there next semester. But at the same time they keep pushing you to get better results...motivate the students to do well when there's almost zero possibility of them failing....can be challenging sometimes, especially for the math and science teachers.
Are there any non-profit IS? This place is a cash cow. The guy who owns it has 20 or so other businesses and the school makes the most money. He doesn't even manage it really. Seems like a pretty sweet deal... |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| They exist. I interviewed at a non-profit international school last summer. I didn't get the job, but I didn't take the application seriously as I already had a job offer that I intended on taking. |
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Mr. English
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The best by far is private tutoring. I spent close to seven years in China in two stints, private tutored solely for three of my five years in Guangzhou and for most of my hours in the other two years. The problem is keeping the workload up; the advantages are pay and job satisfaction. I worked mostly with adults, professionals, and with teenagers looking to go abroad for college. Shanghai and Beijing I think are the best markets for adults; Shenzhen would also be good; steer clear of Guangzhou unless you can handle young monsters. I bailed out over a shortage of hours and also got fed up with the air pollution (and of course Beijing and Shanghai are far worse than Guangzhou; Shenzhen is a bit better). It is now a piece of cake if you are an American to get a 10-year business visa; you can private tutor on this; ignore the doom-and-gloom types who will tell you that you will end in prison; Americans do not end in prison, or anywhere other than making-money-land, private tutoring on M visas. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. English wrote: |
| The best by far is private tutoring. I spent close to seven years in China in two stints, private tutored solely for three of my five years in Guangzhou and for most of my hours in the other two years. The problem is keeping the workload up; the advantages are pay and job satisfaction. I worked mostly with adults, professionals, and with teenagers looking to go abroad for college. Shanghai and Beijing I think are the best markets for adults; Shenzhen would also be good; steer clear of Guangzhou unless you can handle young monsters. I bailed out over a shortage of hours and also got fed up with the air pollution (and of course Beijing and Shanghai are far worse than Guangzhou; Shenzhen is a bit better). It is now a piece of cake if you are an American to get a 10-year business visa; you can private tutor on this; ignore the doom-and-gloom types who will tell you that you will end in prison; Americans do not end in prison, or anywhere other than making-money-land, private tutoring on M visas. |
What kind of visa allows you to work exclusively for people who do not have the right to employ foreigners? |
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Mr. English
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| "Right to employ"? I'm unclear on that. A business (M) visa allows you to be in China for 10 years (if you're an American) and do just about damn well whatever you want to do, private tutoring most certainly included. |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. English wrote: |
| "Right to employ"? I'm unclear on that. A business (M) visa allows you to be in China for 10 years (if you're an American) and do just about damn well whatever you want to do, private tutoring most certainly included. |
I've never seen that, although I'm sure that there are holders of M visas that are teaching, tutoring and whatnot. Here is what the Chinese embassy site has for requirements: http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/visas/hrsq/#M .
". . . 6. Documents on the commercial activity issued by a trade partner in China, or trade fair invitation or other invitation letters issued by relevant entity or individual. The invitation letter should contain:
A. Information on the applicant (full name, gender, date of birth, etc.)
B. Information on the planned visit (purpose of visit, arrival and departure dates, place(s) to be visited, relations between the applicant and the inviting entity or individual, financial source for expenditures)
C. Information on the inviting entity or individual (name, contact telephone number, address, official stamp, signature of the legal representative or the inviting individual) . . ."
Of course that is only to get you in the door/port of entry, but it looks like the intention is for businesspersons with trade relationships with Chinese companies to get these visas. |
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Mr. English
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| You need three things and only three things to get a business visa in China: a passport from the right country (USA works fine), a passport photograph, some money; period. |
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